what's the best build for rogues/stalkers?

[Aaronock]

Oh forgot to throw this your way. Basically this is the stalker build T uses. Seven skill points are open to pretty much abuse any way you want depending on your tastes and play style.

http://web.hc.keio.ac.jp/~fk061999/himey...nbn1cFqAJy

Reject Sword is amazing in PvM party play with appropriate setup. It allows you to tank hits you have no business tanking even as an agi build.

Build wise T and I use the same stats which are:

100 total Strength (or at least 90 base for Thief Ring/Rogue's Treasure)
100+ Agi (depends I got about 115 but I think T has a bit more)
20-30 Vit (helps a bit with healing via items)
50-60 Dex (you need this to hit at all on most monsters as Stalker and I recommend going closer to 60 if you can)

Anyway some suggested items along the way as a rogue and stalker:
*Fricco Shoes: +2 Agi, helps a ton when using pots to heal also

*Falcon Muffler: +15 Flee and 5 Perfect Dodge, can be substituted for a very long time till you have a slotted pantie/undershirt combo or dragon vest/dragon manteau combo

*Purple Bat Hat: +2 Agi, and heals you 1% of each attack you make. Eases pot use especially if you don't get hit but when you do it hurts.

[T-chan]

Split Ends Wrote:i wish i can be as good as her or somehow near her greatness

Aaronock Wrote:Basically this is the stalker build T uses.

Thank you (bows) I'm flattered. I must admit that what you both said made me smile. Maybe people will stop seeing rogues / stalkers as useless-not-worth-partying-classes.

I cannot agree fully, though with what Aaronock said. My build is not the best build. It is the best build for me. For someone else it might be a complete fail.

So... first of all, decide what is your favourite playing style.

micer Wrote:It all depends on what you want to do with the stalker later on.

What can I say... +1
I could not agree more that build depends on personal preference.

For example, I personally dislike playing bow using chars - I don't like fiddling with arrows, especially, that they tend to run out in the least appropriate moments. (And, before someone asks, I did try to play archer type) Mind you, I am not saying that bow rogues/stalkers are bad, it's just that I would never make my char a bow type, as I would feel bad playing a 'semi-archer'. Thus, do not expect much valuable input from me here.

Also, I personally don't see much sense in so called "caster-stalker". Had I wanted to use spells, I'd have gone for a sage.

I personally am more into close combat.
That's why I went for dagger type. Daggers are quite diverse. By carefully choosing your weapon and matching it to your enemy, you can deal quite a lot of damage (for example: triple peco peco egg in mes+7 endowed with ice can give you nice ~2,5k max dam on kasa - that's with plagiarized trifecta). Still, rogue / stalker can be out damaged by most classes.

Don't be mislead - in some cases I would still prefer sword to a dagger (immaterial sword for ghosts anyone?). With swords you lose that precious double attack, however with plagiarized trifecta it's not so bad. And you could use equips to compensate.
Yes... equips.
Talking about your build without talking about equips is pointless. Pure stats do not make your char.

But to have something to start with, here is roughly how T is built:
I have 100 str in total, about 110 agi in total, a bit more vit than what Aaronock said, dex fitting in range.

It's probably equips that cause the fact, that while having LESS agi than Aaronock, I have MORE flee than she has(atm reaching 330+, depending on the configuration).
Also, do NOT disregard vit / def. Flee protects you or not, there is no state in the middle. You are either hit or not - no third possibility. And if you ARE hit (remember that unavoidable 5%?) you will LOVE every vit point you have and every armor upgrade you made. You WANT your def. Do not fully rely on agi. Thing is that if you don't die after one hit, you won't die most of the time. In party your priest will heal you (or you'll use pots). Your high flee minimizes changes of getting hit twice in a row.

I must warn you though, good gear for this class is expensive. As in: EXPENSIVE. I rely on twin thief rings - that's 8-10mil in accessory only. Add to that set of slotted panties (minimum two) and a slotted undershirt - another 30 mil in gear, not to mention cards. Add to that a good head gear and a decent shield... It gets expensive. If I was to estimate worth of T's equip I'd say it's much more than 150 mil - and that's only with one type of garment + armour set and without weapons. Add to that cost of set VVVS and VVele damasci - all between +6 and +8, three mes+7, (triple bloody, triple PPE, triple santa poring), exorciser +6, double dragoon dragon killer... Also, I'm not counting equips and weapons I have borrowed from friends...
Trust me, it gets expensive... And fast at that.

Though you CAN make relatively cheap build. Panties[0]+undershirt[0] can be over upgraded nicely, giving you nice def. Add to that some reasonable accessory (twin brooch of flash, or twin matyr leash before brooches for example are nice) As a relatively cheap solution you could use panties plus whisper under[1]. Fricco shoes are a good choice. Also, set of VVVs plus VVele damasci is relatively cheap and gives you nice range of enemies to deal with.
So no need to be terrified with costs of the equips from the very beginning. Thief class, especially rogue / stalker is zeny making machine... And a huge zeny sink

And even if you pump so much zeny into your char, bear in mind, you will NEVER ever get as high damage as OAB +7.
But... the truth is you don't have to. It's not a contest of "who deals more damage, me or that LK". You, as a stalker have a different task. You are a holder. You deal smaller damage per hit that most of the classes. However, your damage output is high due to high attack speed (our class loves imposito manus skill ). Still, you are not a DPS. Sometimes you are secondary DPS, but in larger parties you usually are not a primary one. Dealing damage is not your main task. This class has innate HUGE bonuses to flee - it is wise to make use of them.

About equips:

* Fricco Shoes: what Aaronock said. I've spend most of my rogue life in fricco shoes, and a huge part of stalker levels - before getting BLB+7 with matyr. Also, it helps when farming zeny - better heal = less pots used = smaller cost of obtaining given amount of items to sell to an NPC.

* Under + pantie set - initially not slotted, you can go for higher def then. Relatively cheap to get if not slotted, gets expensive once you go for a slot.

* Falcon Muffler - I personally have not used it, but I must agree with Aaronock. It may be a good choice depending on what you want.

* Purple Bat Hat - at some point my beloved hat for zeny farming. Mind you: with high flee you don't get hit often. Though it won't heal much per hit, as your damage is not "OMG-I-KILLED-IT-IN-ONE-HIT", you should still deal enough to get that hp return. Saves pots, though for partying I prefer something else, depending on the situation.

Now... to skills.
Aaronock missed one specific attribute of my build: I use sword mastery 10. It adds to attack, what with 180ish attack speed is a HUGE bonus. However, if you want to go PvP you might prefer something else. I'm not PvPing, I have no knowledge / experience in this area.

So:

Sword mastery: +40 atk at lv 10, must I say more? IMO, one of the best things I could have done for T. Makes her damage output so much better. Works for daggers and swords. If you go for a bow build, forget it.

Close confine is a precious skill (quest is damn annoying, but worth every curse I've thrown at it). It allows you to take over aggro of monsters that normally do not change targets. Can be dangerous at times, but you can break it by backslide for example.
Divests... useful things, but I'd avoid them as rogue unless you have lots of sp. No full strip and 15% chance that it will work with 20SP cost at lv5 make it an SP hog... I'd rather invest in gank / mug to raise zeny gain.

Back stab: not my favourite skill, as I mostly party and party as main and often only holder. Thus, I can't really dance around and try to back stab. You don't need to hide, but finding monsters back may be difficult (position lag, anyone?)

Raid can be a good skill for getting aggro on yourself and off that poor wiz. It's small AoE, and though it requires hide (causing monsters to lose track of you), it gets aggro back immediately. If your party wisely chooses targets, there is a high chance they will never get aggroed.
Also, may be used in case you are mobbed - be careful though, hide + raid combo is again SP hog, especially if your int is not high. I save it for difficult situations usually.

For rogues plagiarize is a waste of points. Without preserve it is quite an annoying skill - you can never rely on it. I'd rather invest those points into gank / mug - this is how we always made zeny fast in new servers.

Mug and gank: You could sum them up as: "MOAR ZENY PLZ!!" Me and Irx went to Thanatos Tower 2 as rogue / priest and got huge part of our zeny from there (high gank, high flee and ancient mimics = getting fricco shoes with relatively low risk, those were at demand at the time) We literally flooded the market until it could take no more.

Full strip... I don't go PvP, I don't attend WoE, AFAIK does not work on boss monsters... Useless for me.

Sword reflect... What Aaronock said.

Preserve - makes plagiarize useful. Think of what you want to plagiarize. My favourite is trifecta, but that's just me. You have many more options.

To end this lengthy post:
* Know what you want to do.
* Know what gears you can get and plan your build accordingly. There are simulators you can use, use them wisely.
* Plan your skills according to the two above.
* Don't be afraid to reset. I did that to T several times before arriving at current build.
* Switch your gears according to location / enemy.
* Carry and use pots, have some vit - your priests will love you for both. And you will love their safety walls, if they have one.

For those who took time to read it:
Thank you for your patience and sorry for the wall of text.
As a small bonus: what a stalker can do:





There are some MVPs I can take heads on together with Irx.
There are some I can only assist with - I dare say skoll is a bit easier with me driving mobs away from damage dealers and I'm fine with it.
And there are some, with which I will never be of use.
Still, I find it amusing when people go "OMG, dagger stalker MVPing?!"
It makes me smile

[Namine]

Going to have to say, caster Stalker is not really a viable option at the moment, as you only have access to 1 spell with scrolls at best (unless you play autocasters, but then your dex will bit on the low side to cast with plagiarized spells... or your int is too low.) Until elemental sword if working properly as it should instead of imitation, caster stalker is probably a no-go.

[Matrim Cauthon Jr]

Nox had a damn good Caster Stalker back when he played.

[Namine]

Matrim Cauthon Jr Wrote:Nox had a damn good Caster Stalker back when he played.

But still not at its full potential. Elemental Sword is the heart and soul of it all.

[Aaronock]

Elemental sword is going to open a lot of opportunities for fun next SVN, I'm pretty excited.

Excited enough I'll even play Gale again and try to level him. X_X

[Kari Nogashi]

im so noob on this server it is retarded but i will still defend the bow stalker with the high dex high int build some agi little defense a good bow and plenty of different arrows tend to be vital in dealing with 1v1 pvp( my favorite type of pvp) with divist all working at 20% on classes that rely so heavily on gears it is for the most part a death sentance. the object always was to avoid fighting classes that have alot of range ( generaly pallys and snipers) but the expression people get when a bow -

[Kari Nogashi]

stalker divists close confines then snatches them is absolutely priceless and generally you can backslide far enough away that DS and BS can be spamed ( hide and stalk are important at these moments to find the perfect times to strike) so with busy fingers MOST classes will end up bowing at your feet after several duels asking wtf happened and honestly its the only reason i bother playing stalkers is for the epic pvp.

[Split Ends]

whoah i love all those who replied and gave their comments on this topic :D

atm, im doing the carded thin blades and have sky deleter as a substitute for the purple bat. got the elem damas (tnx sweet cafe, still havent repayed u yet. just pm me in game :D)

@T-Chan. tnx, i learned a lot :D and yes, i said "WOW" in real life when i saw your screenshots xD

agreed that best gears can get really expensive, but atm, i can find for cheaper substitutes ex. wild rose boots :D

gaining 2m from selling my thief's ring really gave me regrets. i now wanna buy it back xD

hmm. im kinda convinced that melee stalkers are pretty good now. honestly, as T said, the misinterpretation of rogues being useless in party was one of my beliefs before, but it changed now xD but still, the one who mentioned the bow stripper role gives death sentence to item dependent class is pretty good in terms of wars and pvp

ds delay with low agi is pretty harsh so yeah, maybe a caster bow rogue can't be that good (imo)

kari's post also got me thinking, he made bow rogues look really great :D

well atm, i choose swords and planning on making a 2ble strouf thin blades to grind at kiel2(<<- anyone think this is a bad idea? so i can discard the expensive thought before i do anything abt it, cause i was planning on
2ble drainiliar -->> 2ble strouf)
and prolly 2ble hydra thin blade for raydrics or kiel 1

+1 on sword mastery over plagia on rogue :D

hmm. abt the aspersio. does that really work? does it also work with sage's elem conversion? i really nvr thought of that, but if it works, im sure it'll be really great help :D

reject sword... im not really attracted with this skill. is it really good?


again, tnx for all your replies

[micer]

aspersio is a skill that damages undead, so if you wear an evil druid armor, go to pvp or a duel, and have a priest asperio you, you will copy it with plagarize (because you will get that 60 or so dmg). this makes it easy to solo on things that are weak to holy since you could be self sufficient in making your attacks holy. you could also combo it with carded weapons (like triple SPC weaps or w/e) on weak-to-holy mobs to deal more damage.

on the other hand, endow weapon skills do not damage you, therefore you cannot copy them. you can, however, ask for endows or use elemental converters to change your weapon element.