what's the best build for rogues/stalkers?

[Namine]

You can copy anything that deals damage to you. If you wear Evil Druid, Asperio will deal holy damage instead, so that's why you an copy it. Endow never deals damage, so you cannot copy it. Likewise, this is how you copy Turn Undead or Magnus Exorcismus.

You cannot copy Blessing by having a monster use Change Undead on you, then ask a Priest to use Blessing on you though even though it dealt damage. This is the exception to the rule.



Bow Stripping stalker is pretty much default standard pvp type though heh... the sad and annoying part of this all is that creator completely and utterly walls you, reducing you to the point where now you just FSK around to either dispel links or get in a good spot to recall then die a glorious death. Let's be glad that FCP isn't as common as it should be here in heRO.

It's also important to note that Strip doesn't work on mvps in current svn... and in the next svn when it does, it still doesn't work on the practical level. Either you don't need to strip the mvp anyway cause it's a lower end mvp and you can just destroy it, or on the mvp where you need to strip it to weaken it down, their dex is too freakin high so your strip always fails. Sigh gravity, your bias for assassin cross over stalker out of the thief family is painfully obvious.

[Aaronock]

The reason aspersio works is cause if you use evil druid armor you get damaged for 40 by aspersio. You must be damaged to get a skill through plagirism.

If you want a cheaper alternative for strouf, many demons are also shadow property, I recommend heavily in investing into santa poring cards instead because of this.

Thin blade is awesome btw, I used one on my knight to level him in a few places with santa poring cards inside it. I got into an Odins 3 party at one time and with asperio, 110 str (yay bless) I could hit about 9k+ damage BB's on Frus and Skogul. Bathory were one shotted (not that its hard to do that) with BB also. Its also a level 4 weapon, so the two slots becomes less of an issue also.

[micer]

ha, i ninja'd you both with my less structured and unorganized post!

[Irxallis]

Split Ends Wrote:rogue (...) to grind at kiel2

It might not be the best place for a single rogue (unless you mean one with a priest). That is, it will technically work because you can down them, but Kiel2 is a bit special:


1) Constants with 10k HP. You need either to hit them ONCE, wait till they start preparing for blowing up (notice the skill bar being filled) and backslide like crazy - no other way you can avoid that attack. And 10k damage will kill a rogue. Good thing - you can hide from them.

2) Constants with 1k HP. You cannot hide from them. You cannot outrun them (unless with backslide). You will be dealt 1k damage >_>. It is not something that kills, but it is annoying and can be pot-consuming.

3) Alicels have a Guided Attack skill. This skill makes them hit you. By this I mean: no matter your flee you are hit once for... ~2k damage? (approximating)

4) Aliots... although it doesn't seem so from their stats they have a very high crit rate (no idea why, honestly). Crit bypasses flee.

To sum up, Kiel2 is not the best place for a rogue. You should be able to make it, but you will burn much more pots than you really want to.

Split Ends Wrote:gaining 2m from selling my thief's ring really gave me regrets

Me too. I have sold ~15 thief rings to good people of HeRO and not one was sold for less than 4.5 mln zeny XD.

---
About Thin Blades:

For some monsters you might prefer an Exorciser dagger over a thin blade[2] with twin strouf cards especially if you are auto-attack. Look at the numbers:

Let us assume the rogue has 100 STR total, thus 'innate' damage is 100+100 = 200.
Exorciser: ATK 90, dagger, pierces defense of demons, ~5 mln zeny
Thin blade[2]: ATK 120, sword, with two stroufs -> 140% damage

Now, your maximum damage with both is as following:

Code:

Exorciser:
200 (your STR bonus) + 90 (Exorciser) + 4*7 (oridecon) = 318 damage per hit
with double attack, +50% avg damage

-> 477 damage per hit (statistically!)

Code:

Thin Blade[2] +7 with 2* Strouf:
200 (your STR bonus) + 120 (Exorciser) + 5*5 (oridecon) + 2*7 (overupgrade) = 359 damage per hit
Twin Strouf bonus: 359 *1.4 = 503 damage per hit.
Chick hat bonus: 503 * 1.25 (lv 5 double attack)

-> 629 damage per hit statistically

Seems Thin blade is much better, doesn't it? But now, let's apply our calculations to a real life monster named Aliot.

Code:

Aliot, def 35, vit 87, Demon.

Exorciser pierces monster defence, therefore we deal the same damage. 477 per hit.

Thin blade, on the other hand...

1) I need to disable Chick hat bonus to recalculate highest possible damage:
503 * 0.65 (armour def) = 327. 327 - 87 (vit def) = 240
2) Reapplying chick hat bonus:
240 * 1.25 = 300 per hit on average

Exorciser +4: 477. Thin blade +7 with two stroufs: 300. And Exorciser is cheaper :-).
---

As you can see, the higher enemies' def the greater is the chance you want to use an armour piercing weapon over high ATK modifier one. For example, you want Combat Knight against Sword Guardians over PVP mes+7.


Hope it helps :-)

[micer]

Irxallis Wrote:

Code:

Thin Blade[2] +7 with 2* Strouf:
200 (your STR bonus) + 120 (Exorciser) + 5*5 (oridecon) + 2*7 (overupgrade) = 359 damage per hit
Twin Strouf bonus: 359 *1.4 = 503 damage per hit.
Chick hat bonus: 503 * 1.25 (lv 5 double attack)

-> 629 damage per hit statistically

well, you should bring the double attack up to 10 since i would assume that as a thief, you would want lvl 10 double attack (just because thieves dont really have much to choose from anyway), and baby chick takes the highest level double attack into effect and just makes it work for any weapon (in this case, lvl 10 double attack with sword)

[Irxallis]

micer Wrote:and baby chick takes the highest level double attack into effect

My mistake, didn't know it works that way.

If so, the result is as following:

- 755 max theoretical damage

Damage on an aliot:

1) I need to disable Chick hat bonus to recalculate highest possible damage:
503 * 0.65 (armour def) = 327. 327 - 87 (vit def) = 240
2) Reapplying chick hat bonus:
240 * 1.5 = 360 per hit on average

Exo: 477, thin: 360.

---
Thanks for correcting me :D

[Namine]

Quote:4) Aliots... although it doesn't seem so from their stats they have a very high crit rate (no idea why, honestly). Crit bypasses flee.

Monsters in heRO don't crit by stats. Their "crit" is called "Defense Disregard Attack" and it has a small difference compare to normal crit that it is forced neutral and cannot take element. It always succeed regardless of your luck unlike that of a regular crit as well.

So, Aliot will take 1 sec to charge a "crit" on you, 10% chance once every 5 seconds.

[T-chan]

Few words about reject sword skill:
It gives you a chance that damage from a blow that hit will be halved. You will get a half, enemy will get the other half. Lasts either three hits or 5 mins, whichever comes first.
The chance to reflect depends on a skill level - basically it's 15% per level - 15% on lv1, up to 75% on lv5 (max). Cost: 5+5*lv, which at maximum makes it cost 30 SP. Seems a lot until...
I myself have lv5, and I'll stick to it in my considerations, you are free to make your own calculations for other levels

Anyway, let's say you're tanking a monster for which you have like... 80% dodge rate. This means that out of 100 hits (and some monsters DO attack fast) you'll get hit about 20 times (I intentionally disregard crits and such).
With level 5 sword reflect it means that out of those 20 hits that landed, you have a chance to reflect 75% of them - about 15 hits will be reflected (I assume you are able to recast the skill when it runs out, so that you are constantly protected). This means that only 5% of attacks on you will deal full damage. Additionally, it sometimes happens that the damage that you can deal to a monster is smaller than damage monster can deal to you. Use it to throw it at monster's maul . If you hit for ~500 and get hit for ~2k, sword reject causes ~1k to go back - let the enemy hurt itself.
Additionally, this skill can be a real saver if you find yourself in a nasty situation.

Say, you get mobbed by so many monsters that your flee shield finally crumbles under the pressure. You start to get hit. By spamming that skill you can survive long enough for a priest to cast emergency SW and then to heal / buff you and/or others with less rush. Remember that you / others still attack, so if your party knows how to play, they will down few weaker monsters first, so that you can handle them again.

And - as I usually walk with this skill on - it can an ...ekhm... butt saver if you stumble upon something REALLY nasty.
It was real fun to see this mini valk in Odin take half of its own damage (sonic blow), right after it respawned (or maybe teled) on me It may give you time to react (or at least use that fly wing and then come and res rest of the party :D )

Beware however: this skill may be dangerous. Sometimes you DO NOT want to use it (for example if Laurell in bio2 gets its hit reflected it will start spamming magic attacks on you, which may be fatal if you are trying to handle something else first).

Ah, one additional info: This skill also rejects ranged attacks and skills (ah, the beauty of that sonic blow reflected right into enemies face... *_* ). Does NOT work on magic attacks, but anything that deals PHYSICAL damage can be rejected.

So... this skill keeps you alive in situations where you should die miserably like the rogue / stalker you are ??But remember - it is a CHANCE.
In my opinion - worth every single skill point placed in it.

[Split Ends]

wow. ok now im getting lv.5 of that skill :D nvr knew it reflects dmg to long range physical attacks /gg (no offense, i hater snipers on pvps :D)

hmm. guided and crit attack are so against flee types *-* (def for the crit too), well i guess the stroufing isnt that great idea, i really didnt know the exorciser before :D i think ill buy one once i get the money and that dragon killer :D

so spc thin blade + aspersio = bathory killing :3 (or bb) okay cheking for joker's property :D

[Corporal]

Better off with a mes or gladius for bathories.

Also, it doesn't work on snipers in PvP. I know because DSing stalkers never gets reflected lol.