Add WSS to Bee wing!

[azurerogue]

Gojira Wrote:I don't, they're sold at npcs!

^

Also, CP, you say people opposed to this idea should just argue for removing Bee Wings.??Okay, I'm fine with that.??

[Adrillf]

I don't see the value of Bee Wings at all, and am actually in the vote that they should be removed all together. They take away some of the time and effort balance between classes. Yes AD is one of the most dangerous single target skills in the game, but it also comes with a farming or zenny sink to get those items to do it. By reducing that time and effort to get those items, it lessens the balance to those classes that are balanced by farming times for consumables.

As for WSS's, I don't see any of your arguments being worth while.
-Giving people the access to make c.whites does not translate to WoE activity. Just because you have pots does not mean that you want to run into WoE. I don't know a person out there that would think that just because they have a few hundred/thousand c.whites to burn that they're going to go running into WOE because that's the one thing that was stopping them from being involved.
- Keeps the ranking board up to date? You just want an easy way to get a ranker. GM's have already said with the ranking boards that they're not going to change them, reset them, or delete players that are no longer playing off of them. The time and effort went in to those characters to make it on the board, and they're there to stay until someone comes up with that much effort again. Trying to get easily ranked isn't a good enough reason in my mind to add them in to the list.
- It changes the market. So what? I don't see a problem in the market right now, and don't really see why the cost of them has to go down. The only time people swear that something is over priced is when they don't want to spend money on it, so that's what I'm assuming with this reason. You don't want to spend the money on them, so you're claiming that it needs to change.
- Zenny sink and market stimulation? I agree that it would change the market value of WSS's (which I don't think is necessary), but I don't see this effecting the server's market past the price of WSS's and possibly vended c.whites. As for sinking zenny, I do not see that in any way. A zenny sink pulls money out of the hands of the rich and gives it to NPC's in RIDICULOUS amounts. The Poring Island thing with a ranbowring backpack sunk BILLIONS, and was a one time, birthday quest that could have easily sucked in more. Fairy Auction and ranked nobility are zenny sinks, sucking in stupid amounts of money. In your situation where you say there would be more brewing, you're sucking in only a few million extra zenny a year into NPC's that sell fat whites compared to what is already spent on them.

The only thing that happens with Bee Wings is that they make farming more effective. I am under the impression that part of the balance between classes and builds is the fact and need of that farm. To remove or lessen the need of that farm time only hurts the balance between classes. These wings also strengthen the distance between those who have and those who do not have them. Those who have them will always be more efficient in their farming time, and will always out farm any character that does not have them in similar situations. This means that if you want to be on par and competitive on this server you must have bee wings, if you do not have them you're always going to be behind. I don't see that being any help for new players, that's only another quest that they have to go through, just to try to slow the gap between them and veteran players that grows daily.

Good idea, well presented, but I do not want to see WSS's added to wings and would strongly support any other nerf to the wings and their current drop rates.

[azurerogue]

Although, to be fair, the idea that making a skill that would otherwise be considered "overpowered" harder/more time consuming to use regularly is hardly "balance" much in the same way that making items that would otherwise be considered "overpowered" super rare is not "balance."

[Seth~]

Adrillf Wrote:-Giving people the access to make c.whites does not translate to WoE activity. Just because you have pots does not mean that you want to run into WoE. I don't know a person out there that would think that just because they have a few hundred/thousand c.whites to burn that they're going to go running into WOE because that's the one thing that was stopping them from being involved.

Reducing the cost of pvp based activities aka healing items used encourages it more since less worries is kept about replenishing them.

About nerfing bee wings further. I still believe that if you have a general reduction in time spent on gathering said materials you would be more encouraged to play the game. About class imbalances and those that have it and those that dont. I agree with your standpoint. Bee wings as a whole might be a elitist way of easing the time spent on getting needed items. However by removing the bee wings you are not answering what is to be put into place of bee wings. Mind you of server drop rate has a multiplier of *3. I am not arguing this to be changes since you see large fluctuations in prices of less farmed items. If there is another way to boost drop rates of all items needed by all classes. That would be a better alternative to bee wings.

Just remember if you advocate bee wing removal, provide a alternative. I repeat as before laziness is a product of (this is getting boring). There is various facets of entertaining us as you should know mindless farming is not one of them.

[Ellie]

I'm totally for just removing the cheese and darkness runes from them.

[mahawirasd]

+1 albus's earlier post and ellie.
Nevertheless, i feel that removing bee wings altogether would just mean shafting the ones who already have them and detracting the bee wing materials industry (green feelers especially - one cannot underestimate the amount of hours, and consequently potential zeny, it sank by forcing people to farm them grasshoppers)
But we digress.

What i'm saying is basically adding WSS won't hurt any more than how bee wings have hurt other brewing supplies (assuming bee wing drops are to be categorized as being deleterious).

therefore, all else remaining the same, i contend that adding WSS would detract people from farming cheese/darkness runes (read: easy zeny) and therefore reduce inflation.

since WSS npc for meh compared to cheese/darkness runes, the only 'effective' usage of WSS is for consumption. Even if it doesn't necessarily mean woe participation, it still would mean more industry on the players' side that doesn't go into zeny making but actually providing items that the game itself will sink through time.

Furthermore, (although i have no brewer or AD lobber of my own, nor do i feel the need to brew c whites for an extended amount of time thanks to fish and my old frying pan heheh) based on the statement albus made: [Although, to be fair, the idea that making a skill that would otherwise be considered "overpowered" harder/more time consuming to use regularly is hardly "balance" much in the same way that making items that would otherwise be considered "overpowered" super rare is not "balance."]
imho bee wings have done a far greater "offense" by allowing immortal hearts and karvo...

i wasn't much of a farmer, but my wife and i made a bit of money supplying immo hearts and karvo before bee wings. I reckon people still farm and sell them today, so i contend that the same will happen with WSS (should they ever be added to bee wings).

[azurerogue]

^ See now that's an argument I can kind of get behind. ^

[Seth~]

A whine~the prices of @ws 1061 (wws) spiked its more than double the previous prices. Its probably a crude joke that caught on. (its been a while at this prices)

Tell me how do you justify the wws prices at 3500z and still say wws should not be in bee wings. The lack of supply is killing me then comes a price update of more than double the previous price.

If wws continues at 3500z +- stifling supply aka not in bee wings (at least) is just plain unfair. If 3500z +- would to be inserted into brewing that potion prices would jump to 5400z +- cost price. Its insanely unfair to continue with the stance that wws supply should be restricted as is.

[Merellis]

Just go hunt them then. Bathory is an excellent card to hunt and Demon Pungus drop them at 100%, along with Yellow Gemstones that Prof's love, Hodremlins give decent exp for a Sin and also drop slotted Boots and Shadow Walks, along with a very awesome Hodremlin card.

There, multiple ways to gain WSS as well as other items at the same time.

If you don't like the price, then get it for nothing instead.

[Seth~]

Merellis Wrote:Just go hunt them then. Bathory is an excellent card to hunt and Demon Pungus drop them at 100%, along with Yellow Gemstones that Prof's love, Hodremlins give decent exp for a Sin and also drop slotted Boots and Shadow Walks, along with a very awesome Hodremlin card.

There, multiple ways to gain WSS as well as other items at the same time.

If you don't like the price, then get it for nothing instead.

In theory if wws sells for 3500z. The price for slim whites would jump. That is the problem.

You'd probably say then do not make them or use,??something else. That is my problem. Justifying wws low supply as is remains unfair and biased.

mahawirasd Wrote:imho bee wings have done a far greater "offense" by allowing immortal hearts and karvo...