Add WSS to Bee wing!

[NihonNights]

Merellis Wrote:Low supply? Demon Pungus drop it at 100% per kill, you could make an ME Priest and...

Maybe you didn't read the whole thread.

[Merellis]

I need to read the whole thread to make an argument that there is an easy supply of Witched Starsands in the form of Bathory's and Demon Pungus'?

That these same monsters drop other items that can increase your zeny as you gain WSS to brew Slim White Potions? That you don't have to play by the rules that the ones who sell WSS are playing just by going and killing some monsters?

God damn, that is news to me!

And as for adding WSS to the Wings, what does it really add that Bathory's, Demon Pungus' and Hodremlins don't? You're after a certain item, and there are at least three monsters that drop them at a reasonable rate, two of them at 100% at the very highest.

So what does adding them to the Bee Wings accomplish? Are they gonna drop at 100% too, or are they suddenly a waste of your armor and lower headgear because while you get your couple hundred in an hour, someone got up to 1000 and laughed his way to the bank because he had his wings set on cheese.

[Seth~]

@Merellis yah i know various monsters drop wws that is why most argue that it is widely farmable available. I made my stalker for farming creator based brewing items. Just added hermode cap[vanberk], tried some of the suggested tactics then gained 100-200 wws per hour. I will seek out other ways to improve the farming of wws per hour.

I buy like 10-20% (i think of my wws) for brewing. About the widely available compared to some of the other items in bee wings. Imo (other items in bee wings that drops from a smaller variety of monsters)?is used less frequently, however if slim whites is used for healing and so uses much more items in comparison.

Yes there is still various places to farm wws & and a market for some of those cards. Mind you these spots is consecrated in old school/hard to access places. That more so requires the desire to farm those spots since a large variety of places is available that can offer comparable experience or better.??Furthermore other than wws most of these common drops is average to low in zeny remuneration. Thus if you have to farm wws you tend to loose out to comparable zeny generation maps.

@edit about wws farming + cheese bee wings. In theory according to the original suggestion the cheese would be a worse remuneration compared to (wws sold to players). The issue remains wws prices is so high it stifles supply of slim whites, and this is reflected in high wws & slim white prices and low supply.

[Merellis]

See there's an issue I'm having with your logic here, you seem to be saying that the issue is that you need to take time out of better places in order to hunt down certain items, which makes you get less return on the amount of zeny you want to get.

But, that's the same with any item you need to farm really.

Blue Herbs? Plants, Mavka's and Goats drop them at the highest %, but only the Mavka gives decent % and other items to drop. Does that mean we should toss Blue Herbs on the list too, because they sell high and have a limited supply in the market?
White Herbs? Plants, Incubi, and Blazers have the highest %, but only the Incubus gives any decent exp or other drops, and you have to complete the most annoying quest in existence just to get to them. Does this mean we should add White Herbs to the list because they also have a limited supply?

Look everything takes time and effort to farm, sometimes in areas that do not drop other items that will make much zeny. You want WoE cards like Marcs and Evil Druid's? Go hunt them, sell whatever you get from them as well, which won't be much, and get your card. Want Hatter cards to use for his silly games? Better get used to fighting Porings which drop nothing good beyond the card they posses.

So unless you're arguing that everything that doesn't give some perfect ratio of item hunted to zeny gained be added to Bee Wings so you can hit that golden ratio, I just don't see what the issue is here.

Is it really so bad to take some time out of the week to go beat on lower level creatures solely for the purpose of farming certain items?

And as for the price of the WSS. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

[Ash~]

reply to chaos's first post-

1. Promotes WoE (allow people to make pots);

maybe in some way but then u can also make fat whites and buy wss already available . also buy npc whites . and there r so many people who dont pot at all lol.

2. Keep /alchemist up to date. (There are a couple of inactive/quit ranked brewers on the server);

so u mean new alchemists will be added to that ?

3. Demand-Offer, price of WSS will go down (so it won't be worth anymore than 1.5k)

i already like what the bee wings drop and ranking a creo wasn't that tough . plus theres plenty of supply of wss and if it was made to drop from bee wings the players who use it as a source of zeny now by farming bathory etc . will have bee wings to compete with .-.

4. Good for economy (1 White pot from NPC is 900z (with discount), and brewing condensed White potions isn't 100% (I havn't seen 100% on HeRO yet). [GREAT ZENY SINK].

u r proposing a cheaper zeny sink since brewing is already that - zeny sink.

and if u think its a good idea to add wss , then why not herbs too and empty bottles .. i dont like farming them o.o

ur only good argument is - it ll make wss cheaper . good for creos

[Seth~]

@Merellis it would be nice to have more creator based consumables like white & blue herbs and wws.

Your whole argument about ratios and your comparison to hatter cards is flawed. You are comparing pears with apples.

Due to the low supply of white herbs omg the world is gona end. There is a bypass using npc white potions. Blue herbs I do not have a particular issue with them but there is much more numerous places where you can get blue herbs than you claim. *edit still wws is more numerously used compared to the items that you say it can be compared to that is excluded from the bee wings*

About for argumentative sake bathories farming. Who says I/anyone else would want to farm the same monster repetitively. Yes you can switch to other monster (mind you you must get new gears).??

Merellis Wrote:So unless you're arguing that everything that doesn't give some perfect ratio of item hunted to zeny gained be added to Bee Wings so you can hit that golden ratio, I just don't see what the issue is here.

Seth~ Wrote:Furthermore other than wws most of these common drops is average to low in zeny remuneration. Thus if you have to farm wws you tend to loose out to comparable zeny generation maps.

I don't get your point. That golden ratio xD. If one farm bathories for the sake of wws to maintain the /alchemist ranking and get usable potions and some zeny generation. 600-1000 items per our so that is 50-30 hours spent for item farming for 30000 wws. I assume to get into the alchemist ranking you have to make that figure 150000 so that is 150-250 hours spent farming wws. Time spend on the /alchemist project is getting into my bones. It sucks compared to other avenues that can be explored in hero.

xD. Buying wws is the alternative to farming wws. I do not see the golden alternative that you are proposing (that i've missed thus far).??

@Ash on 3: Is that many players actually farming bathory? Ideally the solution in your problem would be to add bee wings in farming activities.

Why is it making cheaper for creos such a bad thing?

In conclusion as someone else pointed out. http://pandoraonline.net/forum/showthrea...819&page=3 Most ppl out there in the hero server believe its ok to keep things the way they are.?This whole thing feels like a class based act *copy paste from utopian post elsewhere*???????

[Merellis]

I was using the White and Blue herbs as simple examples at how silly this argument is. The fact that some things are in high demand but in low supply has nothing to do with the ways to gain the WSS, because there are multiple easy ways, it has more to do with the fact that most of those who do farm them are also using them to create Slim Potions for personal use.

Those few that are farming simply to sell them do see this and have it in their minds that the low supply of WSS that people are willing to sell, along with the high demand due to lots of players who want them but aren't willing to take the time to farm, means they can charge just about whatever they want. If people are buying it at these prices then it's on the buyer for even being desperate enough to spend that much zeny instead of just taking the time to hunt the damn things.

Hell, to get the zeny to buy the WSS that are currently on sale you have to go farm anyway. Wouldn't it just be simpler to go break out a weapon and then go kick some ass?

As for my golden ratio thing, I was basing that off of your argument that farming for WSS takes away from farming zeny because most of the drops from monsters that drop WSS do not give back much zeny. But that's a weak argument because you're spending the zeny you're making elsewhere to buy these very WSS that you didn't want to farm. Then the guy who farmed them and sold them at a high price is going to be laughing his or her way to the Banker because no one seems to get how silly this whole situation is.

And if your looking to get on the Alchemist list, make some friends, get them to be on classes that can up your % success rate then sell your brewing services, or even brew for free with people who bring you all the items needed. There, you don't need to spend zeny on WSS unless you want to make your own, or just go hunt them you lazy brewer, and you're gaining points while providing others with the potions they themselves have farmed.

But that course of action requires some actual effort, and who wants to do that when they can just ask the GM's to add more and more items to a single pair of wings so they don't have to ever leave their favorite farming location?

And one last thing, why are a lot of you using WWS? It's Witched Starsand, the item has one W in it.

[Ash~]

@seth
i remember when i was a hunter at some point i was only farming wss for money and selling it for 2k each . awesome money for a hunter at that time .

not only bathories but hodrems where sins level .

so if the wss becomes cheap for creos , the farmers r actually affected . it ll become like immortal hearts which r actually harder to farm . . sure cwhites become cheap but not all wanna buy / use cwhites .

hmm advantage of this will be that people can farm wss wherever they like rather than going to the particular monsters . but then only the brewers would be doing this .. wonder if u ll go farm ur own wss seth .. hmm

[Snowhawk]

Merellis Wrote:And if your looking to get on the Alchemist list, make some friends, get them to be on classes that can up your % success rate then sell your brewing services, or even brew for free with people who bring you all the items needed. There, you don't need to spend zeny on WSS unless you want to make your own, or just go hunt them you lazy brewer, and you're gaining points while providing others with the potions they themselves have farmed.

But that course of action requires some actual effort, and who wants to do that when they can just ask the GM's to add more and more items to a single pair of wings so they don't have to ever leave their favorite farming location?

This is something I brought up. Adding to Bee Wings I don't mind so much, but the complaint for the only two demands I've seen is for items that only Alchemist benefit from/can use. Like I said I didn't see a hige change with Stems as I'm still selling them for roughly the same amount as when I was hunting for them before they were added to Bee Wings.

The want to add to the wings so you can hunt without having to leave or do any actual work to farm the items kinda annoys me and tells me that you are lazy and don't want to do any work but demand the benefits. Add cooking requirement items would be cool for those that want to try to get ingredients to cook leveled food other than the cooking utensils. Most from memory aren't really farmable and can only be bought through NPC anyway. Food may not appeal to everyone, but they still have some decent effects for those that do use them.

Merellis Wrote:And one last thing, why are a lot of you using WWS? It's Witched Starsand, the item has one W in it.

Now I'm all self-concious about my posts and had to go back to see if I typed WWS or WSS XD

[ChaosPrince]

Merellis Wrote:So what does adding them to the Bee Wings accomplish? Are they gonna drop at 100% too, or are they suddenly a waste of your armor and lower headgear because while you get your couple hundred in an hour, someone got up to 1000 and laughed his way to the bank because he had his wings set on cheese.

I stopped reading here...
Cheese sell for what 1.6k? Dude, if you WSS on Bwing + farm at WSS spots, you could EASILY get 1500+ WSS/hour. (3500z each) who's laughing now?

@Ash: Yes, update creator list, make the current one's who want to maintain their spot to WORK HARD as well. Zeny sink can come in different forms, SINKING the value also works. REDUCING people setting cheese just to NPC them is another.

Have you guys seen Vacuity vs Kman battle? or Vacuity vs VakraL battle? the NUMBERS of pots and zeny for a 3 minute face to face CT can easily be 5m+. THAT is zeny sinking!

I'm repeating myself, but hey, more pots = more survival. -> More EDP's to kill, more AD thrown, more pots spent. it's a CYCLE. Don't ask me why people shy away from the action. They can't AFFORD IT.

And empty bottles are on the list Ash! . Only herb I would add on would be Blues. You can buy white potions from NPC.

Finally, thank you for the input everyone is adding without insulting others! Very well done!
PS to myself: hottest topic on forum currently, oh man my ideas are getting attention <3