Add WSS to Bee wing!

[azurerogue]

Thanks AMJ - keeps me from wasting more (potentially).

[Merellis]

Seth~ Wrote:I am open to brewing slim whites for other players as long as they provide the fat whites and wws. Mind you the primary reason the 1st and 2nd rank is so way up there is god items. For that same reason I had many ppl compare me to them thus I didnt bother much afterwards.
http://www.pandoraonline.net/heRO_wiki/i...tem_Quest.
http://ratemyserver.net/index.php?iname=...rch=Search

Are you kidding me with this? The people who are so high up are only there because that particular brewer was in use constantly, with multiple people assisting in buffs, along with supplies so that they had consumables for WoE/PVP/BG/Whatever, and they got up there before any God Items made it onto the server. Hell the God Items don't even give that huge of an advantage, maybe a few % here or there, though Albus already covered that.

Seth~ Wrote:I buy like 10-20% (i think of my wws) for brewing.

Then make a 0% and save yourself the zeny.

Seth~ Wrote:wws is more numerously used compared to the items that you say it can be compared to that is excluded from the bee wings

Yes, WSS is used in high numbers, it's also, as I've pointed out multiple times. VERY. EASY. TO. FARM.

Seth~ Wrote:Bathory requires farming requires bathory armor so yah I could not in my logical mind over the long term farm wss with bee wings at bathory but I can verit, or sleeper map ect. Laziness is a product of I wanna be somewhere else that is what the GM should discourage imo.?+ I am not lazy if I buy a tiny fraction of my wss from ppl.
Why was bee wings added?
Your primary argument is that adding wss to bee wings will be [too] beneficial to some brewers, zeny wise. In addition you attack the basic idea behind bee wings. That is what I get from your argument. yet you do not reply on

Bathory's do not require Bathory armor, they can get you Bathory cards though which is pretty awesome. As for why Bee Wings were added, how the hell should I know? Go ask the GM's that added them.

My primary argument is that there is no need to add WSS to Bee Wings as these items already drop at a 100% rate per kill on two monsters that you can easily mob up and kill, with one of them giving you a highly sought after card for areas like Nydhogg Dungeon.

Seth~ Wrote:I'd be so sad if you concede that its biased to leave wss out of bee wings.*insert a fake pic of Merellis picketing against bee wings*

I'm not conceding, I just don't feel like continuing the argument because whenever someone proves a part of your reasons to be false, you immediately jump to another reason, or backtrack to previous ones that we've already pointed out to be stupid reasons.

Price too high? Then don't buy them, just go kill some Bathory's, get a card while doing so and sell it for a neat profit.

Low Supply in Vendors? Go kill Bathory's or other monsters that drop them and increase your own supply.

God Items destroying chances to get in Alchemist List? No they aren't, you're just using that as an excuse to quit trying. Knock it off and get back to brewing, or join a WoE guild and hold a castle for a couple years to get your own God Item. Or join a guild with a good brewer and just get your stuff brewed there if you're gonna give up because some people have been brewing for years on this server.

Seth~ Wrote:Yes and by adding wss it would bring bee wings into more of a balance with other items added in bee wings. The general tenancy to increase class specific items required for skills got a major boost from bee wings. In the long term such acts will probably make the server more healthy. Laziness is a product of I wanna be somewhere else that is what the GM should discourage imo.

Actually, given that there are places to already easily get these items, I just say they're too lazy to go farm the damn things and want an easy solution that doesn't require putting in any effort what so ever. This is a low rate, shit comes to you with effort.

Seth~ Wrote:In conclusion as someone else pointed out. http://pandoraonline.net/forum/showthrea...819&page=3 Most ppl out there in the hero server believe its ok to keep things the way they are. This whole thing feels like a class based act

Class based act? How so?

I don't think that older players have an advantage over everyone in farming WSS, given that Bathory's are Demi-Human and Shadow, so a Bow with 2 Santa Poring cards and 2 Hydra Cards, along with Silver Arrows should give you enough damage to rip them to shreds quickly.

And given that Santa Poring cards are hatter, they're around 350k in total, along with Hydra's being 1-2 million generally. Though, these are also simple monsters to hunt down and kill so it shouldn't be too hard to acquire them in a timely manner anyway. Meanwhile Silver Arrows can be bought by NPC's all over the place.

I also don't think you're actually reading and thinking about what we've been posting as you've just been going on about the same things and complaining about god items, class differences, and prices in the current market. So lets see what sort of response you have today!

[Seth~]

@azurerogue obviously no woe, no god items that is logical. woe in current dominant woe guilds = no god items. Make my own/join a guild with more acceptable guild rewards - Been there done that wasted a few pots, got a shiny badge, koj kinda collapsed....yes there is other - i'd rather focus on obtaining better gears in general before i think of god items.

I thought that was clear in my previous post.

@Gojira guilds that just invite and demands woe participation then afterwards silent. That is more like the norm - yes I did leave some fast. In koj I stayed till after it was remade. After that I didnt find anything close to koj so refer to @azurerogue.

@Merellis wow being rude in your counter argument. It does not prove anything thus far.

Merellis Wrote:The people who are so high up are only there because that particular brewer was in use constantly, with multiple people assisting in buffs, along with supplies so that they had consumables

I dono where you got my apparent lack of use of brewing parties, consumables. Lemme quote me for you.

Seth~ Wrote:For my own brewing I do buy help ingame and the rest I get from rl help

I do not see the point in providing my tactics for brewing unless you really need it.

Merellis Wrote:Hell the God Items don't even give that huge of an advantage, maybe a few % here or there, though Albus already covered that.

he did apparently. So you say 4.45% jump in success is nothing. Clearly you do not brew i'd pay like 200m+ for a +10 garment[1] so i can get ***1*** luk extra. So nearly 5% jump compared to 1 luk. But why would any sound mind pay that much for such a insignificant increase - simple its a increase that would affect success aka profit - aka better gears.

Merellis Wrote:Then make a 0% and save yourself the zeny.

You miss the basic argument of this thread more wss please.

Merellis Wrote:VERY. EASY. TO. FARM.

yes it is easy to farm it would be more easy with bee wings 2.0 and thus have more wss to brew with - aka better.

Merellis Wrote:there is no need to add WSS to Bee Wings as these items already drop at a 100% rate per kill

more wss or at alternative places that is the idea behind bee wings 2.0. Ok So you want bee wings to be removed to prevent wss in bee wings. So bee wings like provide items that is required for certain skills, why was wss not added its biased towards creators that use slim whites. More wss that is the whole point Merellis - but you can get 100% drop rate. Why are you so afraid of wss in bee wings? What are you to loose? It sounds like you are trying to prevent wss from being added for what gain? Others say it breaks the ... I say its biased to leave it out.
You say well its silly to be added since it drops from yah-dah and more dah. I say its biased to leave it out since it comparatively it uses more wss compared to other items in the bee wings. Respond to baised-ness not it drops from that one and that one and .....

About the bathory card. You said wss not only drops from bathory but lemme draw a list for you.
Demon Pungus (50%) dam hard to kill - my champ do them at sleeper (very little on that map, scary a whole map of them)
Bathory (48.5%) my stalker pawls there - it was said best place to farm wss the map does not have that many bathory sadly.
Seeker (40%) rachel sanc has even less monsters than bathory map - access quest.
Hodremlin (20%) kinda hard to kill -aka HITS harder than bathory - and lower drop - and access quest -
Punk and other custom drops is not sufficient to meet demands. Yes i know the drops has a multiplier of *3 or something do not only focus on that.
So basically not only the bathory card will be affected.?Demon Pungus?is a crappy card Seeker & Hodremlin -have lower wss drop ratecompared to bathory - have a access quest that hinders cards + either lower drop chance or the monsters is rare. So bathory card would be worst affected. card economy....marc isnt farmed unless you need it same for ed, pasana, many other cards compared to the extend that bathory is farmed - bathory card over supply is more like it. If you claim that bee wings 2.0 would be push up the bathory card price to +20mil now that is maybe a tiny bit bad. However if you claim that. oh noes you prove that wss < primarily supplied by bathory - aka you prove wss is is short supply compared to demand since farmers(own use & sell) of wss can not keep up.
***just a small post-1st draft edit***bathory map has joker(its card sells for more than 1m at least, oca small chance sadly, and a nice weapon that sells for more than 1m) whisper(drops fabric omg another creator item and the reason that i do not have to go to a specific map to farm fabric + nice card that sells for more than 1m), then there is the mini-bosses yah i use a stalker aka no kill but alchemist/creators can easily kill them and they do have nice drops. compared to verit bathory has much more attractions to sustain further farming in the map if wss where to be added in bee wings. So its flawed to say ohh noes bathory card will spike price wise. It probably will go up slightly and not go up beyond 20m-aka that would be unsustainable.

glad you do not give up.

kill bathory i do/many do more supply = fair compared to other items in bee wings.

Merellis Wrote:God Items destroying chances to get in Alchemist List

its part of the game so aka accept it, i would like some, see part where i'd pay 200m+ for +10 garment[1].

Merellis Wrote:just say they're too lazy to go farm the damn things and want an easy solution that doesn't require putting in any effort what so ever

We did discuss lazy. Lazy 2.0 discussion. We do farm them, more would be fair compared to other items in bee wings since it uses much more items in comparison.

Merellis Wrote:This is a low rate, shit comes to you with effort.

You attack the bee wings-feels offended- Bee wings is making life easier for ppl why cause endless mindless farming of wss is not desired as you claim it is, or man up its part of the game. bee wings was most likely added to ease the pressure of farming for items that helps. However without wss it is biased since it would not be so game breaking. Since its a slight change in prices is acceptable - related to wss.

The last part you missed the part about the silly reasons why i do not woe so it doesn't apply. But to recap i do not woe for god items since its unlikely i would get any in the short-medium term. It is a LONG term project of mine - that has a MAYBE label. Since I argue i do not have the means to accomplish that. Yes I have accepted 1st spot as unbeatable for the time being.??

[NihonNights]

Merellis Wrote:I need to read the whole thread to make an argument that there is an easy supply of Witched Starsands in the form of Bathory's and Demon Pungus'?

No. To know that was already mentioned, so you are repeating what has already been said.

[Kittie]

Well this thread has been nothing but a rise and repeat of arguments and counter arguments really, done with this argument, lets pick one from the old box again. Oh? Finished with that one, here's another oldie~

[ChaosPrince]

How about a GM voice in their opinion?
Not "taking" position on any side, just an general opinion they have.

[Ultima_Pi]

Gojira Wrote:Hi, I farm 800-1k wss per hour at bathories, join my fan club pls.

How to apply? Sniper plz. I killed Jokers/Whispers/Swords too, though I didn't Fwing. Fwings are heavy, dood.

Seth~ Wrote:150-250 hours spent farming wws

6 months on the outside, at 10 hours a week. That's just under 2 hours a day, maybe. Dedicate ONE WHOLE FREAKING HOUR OF YOUR LIFE to farming Bathories, and then when there's nothing else to do, GO AGAIN.

Merellis Wrote:Considering all the WSS that I farm get turned into Slims for WoE and other things, I guess I'm laughing? I just still don't get the point of adding them when there are still those areas which are so god damned easy to farm to get the damn things in the first place.

He wants an increase to server rates, even though it won't affect this particular issue. Because God Items broke the alchemist rankings, and Bloody is a secret GM.

Seth~ Wrote:However without wss it is biased since it would not be so game breaking.

Because they can't farm WSS at the same time as AD mats?

[Seth~]

@NihonNights xD I try to keep track - however I just reply to the item posted. It happens in long threads.

@Kittie I know right. Its hard work to refer someone back to previous arguments on the matter.

@ChaosPrince that is unlikely to say the least. The other thread go to copy & paste.?xD my link is not working the title of the thread is "WSS on Bee Wings"
This thread say that heRO do not want it (the majority). So a GM response would not be needed. The goal here is to let everybody agree that it is biased *goes to copy machine*. My previous post go look for the word biased.??

@Ultima_Pi wow copy paste this caps its in caps.

Ultima_Pi Wrote:6 months on the outside, at 10 hours a week. That's just under 2 hours a day, maybe. Dedicate ONE WHOLE FREAKING HOUR OF YOUR LIFE to farming Bathories, and then when there's nothing else to do, GO AGAIN.

I do farm wss lemme copy & paste for you.

Merellis Wrote:Merellis Wrote:
just say they're too lazy to go farm the damn things and want an easy solution that doesn't require putting in any effort what so ever

Seth~ Wrote:We did discuss lazy. Lazy 2.0 discussion. We do farm them, more would be fair compared to other items in bee wings since it uses much more items in comparison.

Ultima_Pi Wrote:He wants an increase to server rates

never said that. Ideally I want other ways to obtain wss but skill based consumables practically. Higher drops rates aka not *3 but *4 would not provide more wss it will help karvo farming however aka biased again.

Ultima_Pi Wrote:God Items broke the alchemist rankings

no really? It is apart of the game. So if god item broke the game that is news to me. God items is just out of my reach, so sad and I moved on.

Ultima_Pi Wrote:Bloody is a secret GM

really omg. btw tell the "gm" that he inspired me to like brew. So blame it all on this "gm". Funny troll btw nicely placed. Btw all you guys defending the GM's choice feels like a GM envoy designed to prove me(ChaosPrince your day is coming if you pick up if i leave it/or you had your day) wrong.??

Ultima_Pi Wrote:Because they can't farm WSS at the same time as AD mats?

yah that and, dono, some random hatter farming, maybe on my sniper hmm for hood[1] farming, you missed sleeper.

@Merellis the lack of Merellis one can assume. That Merellis agrees that its biased to leave wss out of bee wings.

Seth~ Wrote:Bee wings is making life easier for ppl why cause endless mindless farming of wss is not desired as you claim it is, or man up its part of the game. bee wings was most likely added to ease the pressure of farming for items that helps. However without wss it is biased since it would not be so game breaking. Since its a slight change in prices is acceptable - related to wss.

No one used the word biased or abbreviations thereof. Lemme pull a dictionary for you guys not responding:
1:having a tendency to show favour towards or against one group of people or one opinion for personal reasons; making unfair judgements. Lemme use a example relevant to this thread.
GM's must consider all options available impartially without bias.

So Kittie, Merellis, azurerogue, Gojira -and further back Snowhawk, Adrillf - stuff all the other arguments in a bin and set it alight. I want you to respond to the bias nature of leaving wss out of bee wings.

That said how can this bais nature be justifiably fair considering that wss is used to create a healing item that can be used to heal. Thus in comparison to other items in bee wings is/can be used much more frequently. aka a greater need exists to have wss in bee wings since its more strenuous to farm wss in comparison to others to attain similar goals set out by various skills.
-lemme try to reply and counter reply. But it is fair to leave creators-brewing build at the bottom of the food chain since it is fair to let them work harder than all the other classes with consumables required for skills since they are overpowered. Hey we added ih as a consolidation.
reply-what a sad sadistic way it is to look at this. Since it was previously discussed that adding wss to bee wings would have such a little effect most likely.

Lemme throw around a conspiracy theory. It was widely (for heRO) documented that Item ID# 972 (Karvodailnirol) had a unbalanced allocation in bee wings for a while at the start. Honestly I hope this was a mistake. If not some random other items was added to bee wings to justify making a gear that generates Item ID# 972 (Karvodailnirol). With the unbalanced allocation of Item ID# 972 (Karvodailnirol) a intended mistake.

??

[GM-Rahice]

I don't think that adding WSS to be wings would actually assist in any form to a Zeny Sink. Which was the original idea behind this whole ordeal, wasn't it? I lost track by now.

My personal opinion? With the droprate of other items on there that you don't even need, and with the fact people can hunt WSS themselves already and get an item from Bee Wings on top of that. People that don't need the WSS and hunt it can sell it, people that get items they don't want from Bee Wings can still collect and sell it. So, I say don't add WSS to Bee Wings.

Do I personally have my own brewer? No, I would like to eventually get one, and I know the ranking will be a nice pain in the butt, but it's a challenge. Just like hunting MVP cards. The people that are brewing still, will eventually remove the Rankers without need.

Even if the GM's were to do something to the Rankings, why would it be fair to only do something to /alchemist? What about /blacksmith?

Forger's don't get extra drops through Bee Wings. Brewers and Sinx's already do.

Bee Wings are fine the way they are.

[Seth~]

xD a GM response. you left out my main argument and you(godly GM) goes to other arguments that are for me side issues. Lemme copy & paste.

Seth~ Wrote:So Kittie, Merellis, azurerogue, Gojira -and further back Snowhawk, Adrillf - stuff all the other arguments in a bin and set it alight. I want you to respond to the bias nature of leaving wss out of bee wings.

GM-Rahice was just added to the list. I had it in bold and everything, I guess for so much responsibility comes a large weight to skim through stuff.