Two Questions From the Recent Changelog

[Aaronock]

Really, this is not very appropriate behavior I expect from a GM.

It's obvious you edited your first post on the topic Chaucer, without even stating as such.??This reflects pretty poorly on you, especially when others have quoted you about your original post.??

I know you don't speak on behalf of the full GM team, but to be honest, you're a reflection of it, and of the attitude of the server.??Moving it from suggestions/questions to whining also was a pretty poor choice, being critical of GM actions doesn't necessarily equate to a whine...

It's not a surprise our community is in such freaking shambles, it makes me honestly ashamed.??I'm far from being a perfect goodie little two shoes, but holy crap have I never tried to pretend I was.??

I'm only going to state this because I give a crap about this server.??I wouldn't have stayed 5+ years for nothing.??We desperately need more transparency with our GM's, because implementing custom changes of this sort affect things greatly, and rushing such things to the server makes it seem like there is a conflict of interest.??That conflict of interest being you only are adding these things to please fellow GM's and not the players.

Edit: I fixed my language especially for GM-Forge. Stay cool brah. :>

[Merellis]

demishock Wrote:Ye gods, the things I miss while I'm at work. D:

Rather off-topic now, but can someone fill me in on why the gunslinger bullets are unwanted/overpowered? I ask because I don't PVP, so I was actually really psyched when the elemental bullets happened, because I figure it's going to enhance my enjoyment of playing my GS against monsters to not have to spend scads of zeny on making elemental converters anymore. But I would like to hear the other side of the coin! (Hardeehar! Gunslinger pun! /shot)

I'm trying to recall the exact argument we had, I think it had to do with strong skills and then adding elemental bullets would make the damage nuts. But that question was more towards the change in opinion as I was more curious to the reasoning than anything.

Aaronock Wrote:Really, this is not very appropriate behavior I expect from a GM.

It's obvious you edited your first post on the topic Chaucer, without even stating as such. This reflects pretty poorly on you, especially when others have quoted you about your original post.

I know you don't speak on behalf of the full GM team, but to be honest, you're a reflection of it, and of the attitude of the server. Moving it from suggestions/questions to whining also was a pretty poor choice, being critical of GM actions doesn't necessarily equate to a whine...

It's not a surprise our community is in such freaking shambles, it makes me honestly ashamed. I'm far from being a perfect goodie little two shoes, but holy crap have I never tried to pretend I was.

I'm only going to state this because I give a shit about this server. I wouldn't have stayed 5+ years for nothing. We desperately need more transparency with our GM's, because implementing custom changes of this sort affect things greatly, and rushing such things to the server makes it seem like there is a conflict of interest. That conflict of interest being you only are adding these things to please fellow GM's and not the players.

[Former-GM-Forge]

Rankin Wrote:Bullsh!t.

Aaronock Wrote:give a sh!t.

@nukes for the language. If I missed any, @nukes to them too.

For a more player friendly answer, I'll drop in my 2 cents.
1) I shall pass on to you the answer that was given to me when I raised this concern:
Azote: I don't think they are OP.
My further questioning on the subject was ignored.

2) Fear not, Heroes, for change is on the way. I have my hands on the ToH script, and am working on making it a more robust script that does not revolve around timers attached to the hosting GM. This will ensure that even in the event of the host having issues, the ToH will continue on as if nothing had happened.
Please remember that ToH is a massive event, and is driven by a massive script. It will take time to complete this task, so I ask for your patience.

[Merellis]

GM-Forge Wrote:
2) Fear not, Heroes, for change is on the way. I have my hands on the ToH script, and am working on making it a more robust script that does not revolve around timers attached to the hosting GM. This will ensure that even in the event of the host having issues, the ToH will continue on as if nothing had happened.
Please remember that ToH is a massive event, and is driven by a massive script. It will take time to complete this task, so I ask for your patience.

[GM-Pandora]

I don't feel we need to convince everyone about our decisions, in fact it's nearly impossible and from exprience it usually results in frustration. And since we have limited time it's best to apply it where it counts.

A change was added (elemental bullets) which a lot of players have expressed their excitement about, if you or any oth player have something against that change we are always open to constructive feedback. However, what goes on in gm meeting is not the business of ex-gms, I'm sorry to be blunt but I didn't find a better way to say this.

A minor update was made to the ToH, it was done by someone who doesn't know how to script timers, therefor he left the bigger changes to other more experienced scripters. Of course we want to fix the timer issue, as well as several other things in the ToH to make it better.

Other updates coming first doesn't mean we don't care about specific issues, we might lack the ressource to address it or maybe we differ on its priority, etc. I wish all the projects we've got started could be done tomorrow, but the reality is we have limited time and each GM has their own area of expertise. We've stated this before, but I'll repeat it because it's important: one GM working on something doesn't stop other projects assigned to other GMs from advancing.

I don't think there was any transparency problem. In the past we've released a ton of changes without announcing them beforehand, I don't see why this would be an issue now. Some things we announce and/or ask for feedback and some we don't.

[demishock]

Merellis Wrote:I'm trying to recall the exact argument we had, I think it had to do with strong skills and then adding elemental bullets would make the damage nuts. But that question was more towards the change in opinion as I was more curious to the reasoning than anything.

Gotcha. Thanks! If they're here to stay, maybe they can be one of the items not allowed in WoE/BG, if that end of it turns out to be a problem? Or limit the number that can be brought along... dunno if that's doable for those like it is for ToH, though.

GM-Forge Wrote:For a more player friendly answer, I'll drop in my 2 cents.
1) I shall pass on to you the answer that was given to me when I raised this concern:
Azote: I don't think they are OP.
My further questioning on the subject was ignored.

2) Fear not, Heroes, for change is on the way. I have my hands on the ToH script, and am working on making it a more robust script that does not revolve around timers attached to the hosting GM. This will ensure that even in the event of the host having issues, the ToH will continue on as if nothing had happened.
Please remember that ToH is a massive event, and is driven by a massive script. It will take time to complete this task, so I ask for your patience.
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1. Erk.

2. Glad to hear it's being worked on! Any progress is good progress. Very good to know.

[Ptah]

GM-Forge Wrote:For a more player friendly answer, I'll drop in my 2 cents.
1) I shall pass on to you the answer that was given to me when I raised this concern:
Azote: I don't think they are OP.
My further questioning on the subject was ignored.

Just lol

GM-Forge Wrote:2) Fear not, Heroes, for change is on the way. I have my hands on the ToH script, and am working on making it a more robust script that does not revolve around timers attached to the hosting GM. This will ensure that even in the event of the host having issues, the ToH will continue on as if nothing had happened.
Please remember that ToH is a massive event, and is driven by a massive script. It will take time to complete this task, so I ask for your patience.
[/size][/color]

Forge, we love you <3

Man, i missed so much drama that i want to start vising forums more often yet again.

[GM-Pandora]

To clear things up, GM-Forge unfortunately could not make it to the GM meeting where bullets were discussed in length. Last meeting we didn't really go back on that topic much, sorry if you felt ignored Forge, but to be fair Azote's answer was a bit longer than that.

On a happier note, I think we all look forward to the ToH update and are thankful for the time you spend on it.

[Merellis]

GM-Pandora Wrote:I don't feel we need to convince everyone about our decisions, in fact it's nearly impossible and from exprience it usually results in frustration. And since we have limited time it's best to apply it where it counts.

A change was added (elemental bullets) which a lot of players have expressed their excitement about, if you or any oth player have something against that change we are always open to constructive feedback. However, what goes on in gm meeting is not the business of ex-gms, I'm sorry to be blunt but I didn't find a better way to say this.

A minor update was made to the ToH, it was done by someone who doesn't know how to script timers, therefor he left the bigger changes to other more experienced scripters. Of course we want to fix the timer issue, as well as several other things in the ToH to make it better.

Other updates coming first doesn't mean we don't care about specific issues, we might lack the ressource to address it or maybe we differ on its priority, etc. I wish all the projects we've got started could be done tomorrow, but the reality is we have limited time and each GM has their own area of expertise. We've stated this before, but I'll repeat it because it's important: one GM working on something doesn't stop other projects assigned to other GMs from advancing.

I don't think there was any transparency problem. In the past we've released a ton of changes without announcing them beforehand, I don't see why this would be an issue now. Some things we announce and/or ask for feedback and some we don't.

I don't really see where I went wrong in asking about the Elemental Bullets as I was curious to the reasoning behind it, and am still curious to the reasoning as the only answer that's been put on here that has anything to do with that question is that Azote wanted it.

And given that these GM Meetings decide what happens to the server as a whole, I think players should be more than welcome to ask about the decision process behind it. If the best response you have for me is that I shouldn't concern myself with GM business because I'm an Ex-GM, then I have really nothing to say beyond that it's not really a reason.

I've seen how the decisions are made within the meetings, and as a player who has that knowledge I feel I should be able to ask what the position behind an update is. Though I think any player should be able to ask that and get a decent answer. It's not like the GM Team has ever added a feature purely to antagonize other players so the reasonings behind them should be easy to put forth if one asks.

Lets use the Elemental Bullets for example, the easiest answer could have been "Hey we decided that Elemental Bullets would be a huge buff to the Gunslinger Class as it is an extended class that is lagging behind other classes by a good amount"

There, I can live with that. Instead I get the answer of "Azote doesn't think they're OP." And that's not really an answer the GM Team should be giving, especially if the decision stems from one guy deciding he wants them in the server.

And as for bringing up the past, that was in the past. The last few days there have been updates that the players have been questioning and only really having two GM's actually make an effort to answer concerns despite they themselves not really knowing why they were pushed through at the speed of light.

I think the players are getting fed up with things coming through and never really having a good explanation for why, or just continually getting non-answers to most of the concerns that prop up. Just staying silent may have worked before, but that's not cutting it anymore with a population that has been left wanting time and time again.

And for your information, I don't think you have the authority to tell me what I can and can't ask in the Questions and Suggestions area. Unless there's some obscure rule that says "Ex-GM's may never ask about GM matters, ever." If it exists, I haven't found it yet!

[GM-Pandora]

After discussion back in october we decided the bullets would be a good addition to gunner, provided the price was high enough. We wouldn't add something we don't think is a good addition, so I didn't think this was necessary to mention, but if you needed to hear it I hope it meets your satisfaction.

For extra detail: another key factor in the process was that there was someone willing to make the sprite/item/script/etc. otherwise it probably would not have come so soon. We also very briefly discussed ninja but didnt come up with anything satisfactory, we welcome ideas from our players (but not in this topic, a new one would do better).