About the FISH

[silvanel]

I totaly disagree with that, fish are good the way they are!

if your not happy about it then, just go fish too!! no?

those kind of post only come up when something is not of some guys taste during woe ... which is lame.

yes, im using fish, but im also wasting precious lvling time to fish while other people talk in pront or mvp!
this post is probably agaist a certain ZaBaZa and Silv of course, since we waste our time fishing !just go fish for yourself and the balance is back my friend.


for those people who sais that it makes alchemist not usefull... since when alchemist only create and throw pots??
we can make defense with biocanibalise, we can break people armor and weapon, we can still throw vit characters a white pot that will heal them for 3-4k?? isnt that already good enough?

doubbling the weight wouldnt do good, im in favor of adding an animation tought

as for customs scrypt if your not happy about fishing ... what about mining which cost me 150k for 200 picks and makes me get 1 to 1-5 mill zenny run over 45 min?

[Général_Argos]

Quote:I dont see how makeing fish heavier benifits or makes anything more fair for the strictly or mainly PvMer that espescially goes for the ones who cant carry alot of tonnage.

?!?
If a wiz is able to carry 50 salmon he will be able to carry 25.
If a knight is able to carry 200 salmon he will be able to carry 100.
This apply to anyone.

Quote:

Quote:Please, don't start with the "the game is already hard, why make it harder?"

My post was never to be seen as "the game is already hard, why make it harder." (guessing more or less since atm I'm the only one against the "double the weight" suggestion) Fish are a convenience that were added in by Pandora and the staff.

Quote:When discussing about the pros and cons, think about the game in general and not how this will affect u char >.> My suggestion is to find a way to balance and to make the game more fair. Take in consideration also that fish are customs from the server, they are an ADD, the game is supposed to be playable without them, so fish are in no way "essential" to anyone.

Now you say ?not how this will affect your character? yet by doubling the weight that affects your character and really only affects ONE aspect of the game since your complaint/suggestion is about WoE only. You never said why it would be good to double the weight of fish for leveling purposes or pvp purposes (although your woe purpose I suppose could be included as a pvp purpose as well) but that's how your post is being taken.

Quote:I mean heck, I spent a whopping 8,000,000z fishing when I was going from lvl 98 to 99.

I?m going to try using sal/kamon?s #?s here (unsure which posted XD).

8,000,000 z fishing = 800 sets of 100 bait = 80,000 fish (pretending you don?t get any other items and you ALWAYS catch something)

4,000,000 z buying whites alone = 3,333.33 (runs on but you get the idea)

4,000,000 z buying blues alone = 800

Now as we all know your chance of getting Salmon 100% of the time is pretty much non-existent. You?re going to get guppies, and trout, and bass; however, from the fishing I did today it would equate that you would end up with a slightly larger sum of salmon than you would white pots & blue pots? (I?d actually have to have 8 mil z and have to sit in front of the fishing hole all day to make sure).

Quote:Often there is absolutely no one selling blue pots in town for a big discount.

Part of that problem could stem off the fact of the low drop rates from normal monsters:

Acidus (Water) (1.5%), Caterpillar (0.12%), Dark Priest (1%), Doppelganger (60%), Mobster (0.6%), Nightmare (1%), Nightmare Terror (0.5%), Sage Worm (0.4%), Succubus (10%), Tao Gunka (60%), [Old Blue Box] (0.29%), [Old Purple Box] (0.31%), [Gift Box] (1.00%)

Even with a 3x increase (if it really even is 3x as some drops aren?t 3x higher) blue pots are hard to come by. Unless of course you hunt Succubus all day (if the drop is 30% haven?t checked as I don?t have access in game atm since I?m at work XD)

So I can see where part of that problem comes from ):

I don?t honestly see how the following quote comes into effect:

Quote: This makes the usefullnes of zeny going down.

Because sometimes you pretty much end up spending the same each way with the possibility of the fish getting you a bit more for your money. Zeny is ALWAYS useful to have don?t see how it ever loses it usefulness unless you have like 50 billion <_<;;

If anything as I said before just add an animation to it and leave the fish as is.

#1 Its not about WoE only. If u go in a dunjon, u still have the weight restriction for carrying pots and fish. This applies everywhere. People who goes for a run at lvl5-6 thanathos (exemple, because it is a place it is long to go town and come back) will have to decide between carrying pots or fishes. And as I said, if people start using more pots, it will affect the economy because people will need more zeny and others will need the help of alch to make pots.

#2 About the maths with the fishing. You forgot that when fishing u get items like boots or anvil that can be sold to npcs afterwhile and by doing so u can recorver almost all the zeny spent for fishing.

#3 You don't only gets salmons by fishing, you also get angels, doris, and nemos fish wich are better =o

#4 Hunting blue pots is the worst way to ge them. You can kill seals than bring ur blue herbs to an npc at alberta who will makes blues pots for you or u can ask an alchemist to do them. You can also buy them.

#5 Zeny are getting more value theses day since the auction event made by pandora, but there are still a lot of people who wouldnt trade some items for zeny just because they know it will be hard for them to re-trade those zeny.

Thanx for comments!

[Général_Argos]

Quote:I totaly disagree with that, fish are good the way they are!

if your not happy about it then, just go fish too!! no?

Same thing for Dual client, boting and haxing???????????? Its not because everyone can do something that this thing is necessary good!

Quote:for those people who sais that it makes alchemist not usefull... since when alchemist only create and throw pots??

Nobody said alchemist arent usefull

Quote:as for customs scrypt if your not happy about fishing ... what about mining which cost me 150k for 200 picks and makes me get 1 to 1-5 mill zenny run over 45 min?

Now I know how u make ur money

Sorry for double posting! the time i need to wrote the other post, Silv made his one

[Cream]

crossmesh Wrote:I mean the bait is way to cheap, seing as you could get up to 100 salmon if your lucky for 10k, wihle if you have to buy it, it would cost about 500k, 50X more expensive.

Thats a good idea, doubling or tripling the baits price could work.

And to the person that said blue pots are really hard to come by, well I (and a lot of other people i'm sure) still have over 2k stored without spending a single zeny. How? Simple: leveling at seals.

[Général_Argos]

Weight x2 or weight x1.5 AND triple bait price seems nice

[razoredge]

Quote:?!?
If a wiz is able to carry 50 salmon he will be able to carry 25.
If a knight is able to carry 200 salmon he will be able to carry 100.
This apply to anyone

and that helps the wiz or makes it fair for them how? You do realize you have a 100 item limit on stuff in your inventory before you become overweight without having to be overweight. Lets say you put 90 different items in your inventory that each weigh 1 and you include the 10 items you are equipped with, you won't be overweight by your actual weight standards but it will say you are overweight because you can't hold anything else. Currently as it is per my earlier post the only fish that ISN'T heavier than it's pots counter parts is the white pot/blue pot, the point is to make it convenient and to keep one less slot open.

Quote:#1 Its not about WoE only. If u go in a dunjon, u still have the weight restriction for carrying pots and fish. This applies everywhere. People who goes for a run at lvl5-6 thanathos (exemple, because it is a place it is long to go town and come back) will have to decide between carrying pots or fishes. And as I said, if people start using more pots, it will affect the economy because people will need more zeny and others will need the help of alch to make pots.

#2 About the maths with the fishing. You forgot that when fishing u get items like boots or anvil that can be sold to npcs afterwhile and by doing so u can recorver almost all the zeny spent for fishing.

#3 You don't only gets salmons by fishing, you also get angels, doris, and nemos fish wich are better =o

#4 Hunting blue pots is the worst way to ge them. You can kill seals than bring ur blue herbs to an npc at alberta who will makes blues pots for you or u can ask an alchemist to do them. You can also buy them.

#5 Zeny are getting more value theses day since the auction event made by pandora, but there are still a lot of people who wouldnt trade some items for zeny just because they know it will be hard for them to re-trade those zeny.

Re #1: The only difference currently is the fact that you are carrying one less item for the same weight. 100 salmon = 100 whites & 100 blues currently at the same weight... I really don't see a problem =/. Alchemist's pots as I said before (need verification from a gm) may heal more than their intended amount if they are on the alchemist list at #1 (I think, as I said need a gm verification). I personally don't carry pots or fish when I level, but I play a priest kind of no need for it XD. But I know my friends love the convenience fish add to the game because they make less trips to the kafra just to waste more money in warps/pot purchasing/bwings/loss of exp due to 90% weight/etc...

Re #2: I know; however, if you read my post you will see that I said we were pretending that nothing else dropped and that you always caught a fish. Currently you don't always catch fish (as you can not catch anything at all) and then you get items, some sell for enough money and others
don't sell for much of anything (skull for example).

Re #3: As I said before I was going by just the fish that come to mind quickly. As of the current moment on my fishing I don't catch angels all that much and have yet to see a dori or nemo.

Re #4: what stops people from then doing that to sell blue pots in pront? So that people who can't make them have a chance to buy them cheaper?

Re #5: If zeny is more valuable then why do you want to push up a weight limit on something that supposedly nets you the same thing or more of pots for the same or a cheaper price? By your logic, we should spend more money for pots so we can somehow have more money? I don't see how that gives me more money for those auctions o.O... I can see how it could line the pockets of alchemists but not mine.

As I said, I'm all for adding an animation but when the fish are already equal to the weight of their counterparts or higher then I don't see how it helps to raise it at all.

Now as far as angel/dori/nemo since I don't know their exact weight or healing ratio vs pots I can't say anything.

Quote:And to the person that said blue pots are really hard to come by, well I (and a lot of other people i'm sure) still have over 2k stored without spending a single zeny. How? Simple: leveling at seals.

I said if you're trying to hunt monsters that actually "drop" pots, not go make them through an npc, not everybody across the world that plays ro knows about it

[GM-Pandora]

The weight is already more than the combination of hp + sp pot it represents.

I don't know how to add an animation, else I would have already.

I'll consider raising the bait price.

Next time post in the proper section.

Don't start flamming (aimed at everyone), I'm not in a patient mood >_>

[Lis and Olo]

This isn't about making it easier for everyone. It's about making it a more balanced system. The game wasn't made for us to be able to have pretty much unlimited healing items.

When I said I spent 8,000,000 z on fishing, I probably should have added that out of that, I got about 6,000,000 from selling the items back. Maybe even alittle more. The point of this wasn't the money I spent, rather how much time I spent fishing. Do you have any idea how long it takes to fish with 8000 bait? My point was that has I been farming herbs in the yggdrasil tree it would've taken me 2-3x longer.

There are few if any benifits to using blue or white pots anymore unless you're an alchemist. That's what I was getting at.

*coughhalvethepriceofbluepotscough*

[Général_Argos]

I don't know for you, but me, when I fish, I drag each dialog box to have all of there buttons at same place so I can only keep clicking on the left button of the mouse to fish. That way, I can take my wireless mouse and watch tv when fishing. I don't know if you or how many people do this or something like this, but when considering it, fishing is not so bad. And is alot faster also (alot).

Doubling the weight of fish won't make them harder to get from fishing, it will only limit the number of them u can carry while lvling/woeing.

[razoredge]

I'd like to know what your getting from fishing then <.<;; Because I know for a FACT that my net gained vs net spent at the fishing hole is nowhere near yours, because you're saying you get 3/4 back of what you spent. So either a) you're selling your fish or b) you're getting REALLY lucky and getting lots of opb's, obb's, and oca's.

Also, I was using your example because I guess somehow by adding the weight of fish that you somehow net more zeny from it o.o; So I was using your numbers as a physical showing of how that is o.O; (wasn't trying to single you out or anything you were just kind enough to provide #'s )

Honestly I have yet to ever get 100 of 1 fish type when I've gone and fished once.

Quote:My point was that has I been farming herbs in the yggdrasil tree it would've taken me 2-3x longer.

The above quote elaborates my point. I really don't see how making the fish heavier equates to doing anything except spending more time fishing/going to a kafra while hunting/getting overweight faster/etc...

Quote:There are few if any benifits to using blue or white pots anymore unless you're an alchemist.

Now I'm going by what I catch right now - All the basic fish and a "rare" angel fish. (I don't have 50 points because I don't fish all that often <.<)

1 salmon = 1 white pot and 1 blue pot

so at a 1/1/1 ratio 100 salmon = 100 whites and 100 blues.

There's no loss in usefulness there that I see.

Now let's compare prices again:

100 whites will run you about 120k z without discount (which tbh a rogue's haggle skill will net you a little less costing - 24% w/merchy vs 25% w/rogue - yes I know "ooo a whole 1%" but when being tight with your zeny that 1% comes in handy). Now it'll take a whole 2 seconds to guarantee that you'll get 100 whites, whereas with fishing you have to fish until you get 100 salmons. Which that may take you 20k~30k with 2x (if not more) the time to take to get (I doubt it'll take you more than 3x fishing unless your fishing points are lower than mine). So currently the price of fish is 1/6~1/4 the price of pots with 2x (if not more) of the time.

Now I have no problem with raising the price of the baits as long as it's reasonable. 20k~25k I could push but anything higher than that kind of defeats the purpose of even having it =/. To me, fishing has never been a matter of making things easy, just something to add fun to what can be at times a very repetitive day in game. [Ex: Buy pots to the point where you are 50% overweight (or w/e u prefer) then go leveling only to autoloot everything (yes I know you can adjust your autoloot but isn't it just simpler to autoloot everything (since the point of this debate is to make zeny and pots more useful) that way you are getting more zeny to buy those pots -> have to make a trip back to the kafra to unload -> restock on potions if necessary -> spend money for warp/bgem cost/etc... (yea I know isn't that much but it adds up in the long run) or if you are unfortunate to have neither the warp unlocked or the aid of WP then you have to walk or purchase the warps through the kafra (if you forget to unlock town warps as well since not every new player will be accustomed to doing so). After a while that gets boring and people lose interest, it's kind of why I left the official server.

Now after you think about the time frame it would take to net back the money spent (based obviously on your level -> higher levels will net zeny back faster than lower levels) vs the time spent fishing, the more convenient way is to fish. Do you have to fish? No, you don't, really nothing is stopping everyone from going and buying pots.

I still have yet to really see what makes fishing unfair or unbalanced, aside from it saving zeny... and even then I don't see why that's a problem when people want more zeny .

I merely say that because people are debating that alchemists are useless. Everyone does realize that a condensed white heals more than a normal white and weighs 3x less right? So if people, or I guess I should say alchemists, start making more condensed pots then maybe people will buy them instead of the fish, because if they were cheap enough then that'd be more convenient for me while I'm in a power leveling mode than having to stop completely and spam click + enter while sitting

Now I'm sure you'll ask, "Well if we make condensed whites, why would people buy them when you can just have fish that heal hp and sp?"

IMO, fish sometimes aren't always the answer. For example when power leveling I'm not dependent on my skills 100% so my sp loss is never that bad compared to my hp loss. Fish that weigh 30 that heal like a white pot and a blue pot are less convenient for me than a condensed white potion. Because honestly, I don't need the sp part of the fish, I just need the hp part. So for 1 Salmon (30 weight) -> I could hold 6 condensed that would heal more hp than that salmon.

So honestly I don't see where it's unbalanced aside from it's inability to show an animation during woe/pvp.

My votes:

Raising the weight: No
Raising the price of bait: Sure, as long as it's reasonable

:edit: I apologize I keep forgetting I type way too much also fixed something I left out x_x;; sorry

:edit2: just thought of something else for sal/kamon (whichever is posting)

If you like when I get a few more levels on my rogue, I'd be more than happy to set something up with you regarding blue pots