rate my crusader build!

[Force-Attuned Krogoth]

Cast time is reduced by dex, which is why it's important for GC saders to have some of it. Paring down the cast time will ultimately reduce the time you stand there getting beat up. As for vit, you just need enough HP to survive the cast with things beating on you, plus a little bit fo wiggle room. A good number for GH is 9-10k HP. Of course, as your level goes up, you need less vit to get that high, so it's up to you.

[truthhurts]

what if i go 99 int/vit, that way no dex won't hurt me since gc casts in 3 seconds anyway, and my high vit would help me survive getting beat up in that time... or maybe i should do a balancing act with vit and dex... or maybe one should take the priority... i dunno lol

[Force-Attuned Krogoth]

I think I ended up (at 97 when I switched out of GC) with 30 str, 97 int, 60 dex, and 40 vit base. Worked out pretty well for me, but you can play around with it on your own. If you do a reset, get your skills, then you can sit in town casting GC on yourself, and seeing how the cast time goes.

[Salvosa]

Since this is a matter of opinion, I'd say go Int/vit since that's simply what I'm doing. I'm somewhat unique though, in that I tend to choose off the wall builds for my main characters. It's worked for me so far, but there is no telling if it will work for you.

If you can 1 shot a monster, in my opinion the difference of 1 and a half seconds is meaningless, (to me). Some of you may think an extra second of damge isn't worth it, but in order to cut the cast time in half you'd need at least 80ish dex, and that would severely cut down on your vit and int, which you vitally need to take on big mobs. I think having the 2 biggest factors in mobbing, (Hp and Sp) totally maxed out is worth the loss of a second or two. As I said though, and as I've said in the past, you MUST choose the build that is right for you. I cannot be happy with a build unless I make it myself and tailor it to my needs. I never just take someone elses build.

I'm definitely not the, "My build is top secret" Kind of person, but I definitely reccomend getting your own.

[Bloody]

If you go wild with Vit you end up hurting yourself. Why? Because there are 2 penalties for using GC. The first is as stated before, Holy property atk that can be reduced with:
Mag def
Angeling (Total immunity for kick back dmg)
Poopoo
Thara Frog
...etc

And another penalty of 1/5 HP reduction. In other words, if you get a kick back damage of 300 per GC hit, that is 300*3 = 900. So if your max HP is 10,000 , after you GC (Assuming you aren't getting hit at all), first you lose 1/5 of your HP (2000), then you lose the kickback penalty 8000-900 = 7100 HP. Now, how can high vit be bad?

Assuming you are an HP maniac and love having 15,000 HP. When you GC:

15,000 * 20% = 3,000 Dmg
HP reduction penalty = 15,000 - 3000 = 12,000 HP left
Kick back dmg = 1500 Dmg
12,000 - 1,500 = 10,500 HP left
Total HP lost = 4,500
You need 2 lvl 10 heals with max Int to recover that much HP.

Now, when you use another Sader to GC with 9000 max HP:

9,000 * 20% = 1,800 Dmg
HP reduction penalty = 9,000 - 1,800 = 7,200 HP left
Kick back dmg = 900 Dmg
7,200 - 900 = 6,300 HP left
Total HP lost = 2,700
You need 1 lvl 10 heal with max Int to recover most of that HP.

--------------------------------
The first Sader got bigger kickback dmg because he was HP-Based. Using HP gear such as Andre Egg Card in shield and an Int headgear instead of PooPoo hat.

The second sader will be using Thara and Poopoo, that will result in a much smaller kick back dmg.
--------------------------------
Those calculations are done on a Crusader not being hit by anything at all. Now here are some facts that will make you see things much clearer:

1- The first crusader with high Int/Vit has a long cast time due to sacrificing stat points on Int and Vit only. All armor defence is reduced to 2/3 (Down from 30 Def to 20 def, or from 60 Def to 40 def OUCH) WHILE GC being cast. So it is logical to say: The longer you take to cast GC, the more/higher damage you suffer.

2- The second crusader has High int, average vit and relatively high dex. He suffers less kickback dmg, and the 20% HP penalty is smaller because he has less Max HP. Due to the higher dex, you finish casting GC much faster. Meaning if the first Crusader gets hit 2 times before finishing the cast, the second crusader gets hit only once (With reduced defence that is).

3- As I explained earlier, there are two penalties for using GC. Holy property kick back dmg and 20% HP reduction. This HP reduction is based on your CURRENT HP and NOT max HP. Meaning if your max HP is 20,000 and you use GC while your current HP is 5,000 you lose 1,000HP. If your max HP is 8,000 and you use GC with 5,000 HP, you still lose 1,000 HP. The problem arises on high HP values only, where it costs so much SP to go back to full HP.

-----------------------------
Tips:
- Even though Str and Int are the major dmg mechanics, balance is the key.
- Try to go ahead of your mob before you cast GC. Once your monsters are well alligned to their grids and you are sure about their positioning, You can take a couple steps forward and GC, so by the time you unleash GC, the mob just reached you and didn't get to hit you with reduced defence.
- High vit = High dmg from Occult. However, High vit = high HP = bigger chance to survive Asura. But then again, High HP = high HP reduction penalty when GCing. Choose your priorities wisely.
- @mi is your best friend, avoid GCing stuff with high mag def
- Try to use HC or Bash to finish off stuff with low HP that survived your first GC. Even though someone already suggested using lvl 1 GC, but if you use GC, we're still talking about the damned: Def reduction, SP, HP penalty and cast time.
- WATCH HOW YOU POSITION MONSTERS!!!! This is really important. Do your best to make sure no two monsters or more are on the same cell... With practice you'll know why.



Goodluck

Edit:
As for your build, here??is my opinion:
- Endure gives you +10 Magdef. (Less kick back dmg) So if you have a higher Endure lvl and it lasts longer, it'll be better in the long run.
- Using a peco to run fast is good, having a movement-speed over the monsters while mobbing can prove useful. However, when soloing Guard works perfectly.
- Make it 3 + 7 str. From experience, the atk bonus for every 10 str does effect GC dmg.
- I like your Vit, I think you should leave it that way.

Generally I think your build is just great as it is. The only thing I'd recommend is you get a total of 110 base+bonus int. Maybe tune dex a bit down and pump more Int?

Keep in mind, if you use 2 Zerom Gloves you get 8 Dex, if you use 2 Earrings you get 4 Int. If your int is in the 91+ zone, you need 11 stat points per Int point (44 stat points total for 4 Int points). However, if your dex is in the 81~90 you need 10 stat points per dex (80!!! stat points total for 8 Dex points). See the difference in what accessories you use can do? You can save up to 36 stat points.


And Sal, if he uses a Bloody axe, what happens to the (Andre or Zipper Bear Blade/Haed) and the Shield?

[Salvosa]

Keep in mind, I wrote that before I ever really used my crusader, and this was my first crusader. All I said was a matter of opinion since I hadn't tried any of it for myself.

Now that I've leveled a bit I can say a few things though. First of all, I was wrong abut the peco thing. It's definitely worth the point. You just can't run around a mob with a bloody axe and then expect to switch weapons at the last second before each and every gc. It just isn't practical and you may as well have used a peco.

Secondly, your ideas of vit are correct, but the way you portrayed them kind of skewed the information in your direction. For example, while I am going full vit, that doesn't nessisarily mean all of my equipment is hp based. In fact, none of it is. I have a +7 Thara frog shield and Loli ruri chain mail, (lvl 3 auto heal).

As an aside, it is unreasonable, even with max Vit and Faith for a crusader to have 20k hps, (even with full hp gear and vit clips). Surprisingly though, a Knight can. Knights actually have better HP growth all the way down the line.

Back to the point. There is a big difference between using GC on nothing and using GC on a mob. First of all, a mob is actually attacking you, so when you do cast GC the kickback is constantly being reduced as you lose hps. In reality, neither of your example crusaders would be walking away from a mob having used 1 or 2 heals. Both players will have had their hps widdled down to dangerous levels, especially if you cant 1 shot your mob yet.

Also, if by chance both of those players were to run into a mob that was 1 or 2 monsters more than they were used to, it would be #2 that was more likely to die because he had less hps and vit defence, (not a huge difference, but it does have an effect). Since you stand sill while casting, the high vit crusader also has higher HP regen as a bonus. Even though #2 has a better cast time than #1, the first crusader can afford to take the extra damage since he has the hp to spare. Thus, both come out about even.

Also consider that you don't really need to fully heal yourself after every fight when you have enough hps, so either way, both crusaders are healing about the same amount of times. The higher vit is both a safety so that you don't die in harsh situations, and allows you to take bigger mobs, meaning more xp for you.

My build is NOT meant in any way shape or form for pvp, so occult doesn't matter. All I care about is killing raydrics until the cows come home. Even with 99/99 vit/int I'll eventually be able to one shot them and have high hp and sp regen. Honestly, I hate total PvM builds, so I'm trying to get through this crusader phase as fast as humanly possible.

I'm not saying my build is superior. Actually, I believe they would both perform almost identically in practice, I just prefer my way as a personal preference.


With that aside, I find that often when I cast GC, depending on how the monters are positioned, GC will only hit like twice or even once. I just cant figure out what I'm doing wrong. What exactly is the best way to position the monsters around you and how do you go about doing it?

Edit: I really have no clue how my post ended up being this frikken long!

[Force-Attuned Krogoth]

Positioning mobs for GC is really a knack. You have to make sure that no two monsters are on the same panel. It took me awhile to get the hang of doing it with 3 raydrics, but it's all subconscious so I can't explain. And even then, it still doesn't work sometimes. You just get a lead on them then stand in the right spot for the pathing AI ... and hope there aren't unseen obstacles. Really irritating when they bounce off a stone then all cluster up in one panel so it takes three GCs to get them.

[Salvosa]

Grr, well thanks anyway. At least I know it isn't just me. xD

[Bloody]

1- I wasn't talking about your build.
2- I am explaining the difference between the two famous GC Sader builds:
a- High Int High Vit Low Dex build.
b- High Int Average Vit Moderately High Dex build.

3-

Quote:Back to the point. There is a big difference between using GC on nothing and using GC on a mob. First of all, a mob is actually attacking you, so when you do cast GC the kickback is constantly being reduced as you lose hps. In reality, neither of your example crusaders would be walking away from a mob having used 1 or 2 heals. Both players will have had their hps widdled down to dangerous levels, especially if you cant 1 shot your mob yet.

This only proves my point... The Crusader who has a long cast time ends up with less HP after every GC Cast because they take longer to cast, they suffer a bigger HP reduction, their Def is reduced by 2/3 for a longer time.

You seem to forget an important fact:

It takes more time for the Sader with high Vit to finish casting. By the time they end their cast, they lost a lot of HP, and they need to heal up to a limit where casting another GC + Healing up before they die.

Whereas the Dex GC Sader needs less HP to be able to cast a GC + Heal without dying. I've been playing GC Sader for over 3 years and I know what I am talking about.

4- In my post I didn't say which is the "Ultimate" Sader build. Both have their cons and their pros, I clearly stated that in my post. One of the biggest disadvantages of Low Vit High Dex builds is: Khals stun them easily for a long period, enough to dish out nearly 2~3k HP before they can get to heal again. Where as the Vit type only get stunned enough to take 600~800 dmg.

Quote:As an aside, it is impossible, even with max Vit and Faith for a crusader to have 20k hps, (even with full hp gear and vit clips). Surprisingly though, a Knight can. Knights actually have better HP growth all the way down the line.

Uh... Hi, Salvosa, meet Tao Gunka Card, Tao Gunka Card, meet Salvosa almighty LK.

Does the phrase
"To get a point through" mean anything to you? I could say:
A Sader who has 100,000 Max HP, GCs while having 5000 current HP, loses 1000 HP + kickback dmg
A Sader who has 7,000 Max HP, GCs while having 5000 current HP, loses 1000 HP + kickback dmg

Get the point? It was to show that the CURRENT HP matters and not the max HP, uh duh.

[Salvosa]

Almost anyone could get to 20k hps with a tao card, so that doesnt count.

You sound so offended considering that I was simply stating my opinion, which is that both builds work practcally the same way and that I chose the one I preferred. There is no need to argue about it.

Cool off, Bloody.