Quest Exp Rate

[Force-Attuned Krogoth]

Sucky people will always suck. Only thing that quests could possibly do is shorten the time, but we've already seen that time is not a deterrent. Quest exp doesn't change anything at all, it just makes levelling faster temporarily. How is that any different from the leeching in thor's that you see any time you set foot in the zone? People will level. Nothing we say will change that. Do I want people to trans without knowing that they have to use water arrows on kasa? No. But it'll happen with no regard to my sensibilities. And changing quest exp will have no impact on it, because these people aren't deterred by the road to 99.

In fact, alot of the people who don't make it to 99 are the ones who already figured out their class and are bored and make another. Should we complain about them next?

[Frogboy]

J J J, your attitude of "i told you so" is way out of line, and has no need as part of your response. you really should know better than that.

but going off of that anyway, your "points" really aren't very strong at all. everyone who dedicates time to level their characters however they do so, will eventually get to level 99. there is no skill needed in leveling. you could practically (though you'd be insane to do so) level off porings and get to 99. does that mean that the person knows how to play their class? if you say yes, you are just lying to yourself. point, click, and "shoot" tactics to level don't apply in strategy. it's a leveling mechanism. strategy involves thinking several steps ahead of what your opponent is thinking, and that cannot be learned by just killing monsters. besides even if you did learn to be strategic on monsters, it isn't the same as players who have real brains of their own and can actually think for themselves how to protect themselves while attacking you at the same time. monsters, no matter how good the AI is, can never ever do that. all they're good at is skill spamming, which is pretty much what any player does when killing monsters. it's a mindless game of kill or be killed. if monsters could think for themselves outside the bounds already set for them, then your idea of learning strategies would be valid, but as of right now, they don't work.

i don't think i could be any more obvious of the flaws in your argument than i already am. please don't think that by killing monsters it somehow equates to killing human controlled players (sorry for stealing what you said kretz, but J J J is thick headed anybody got a really big drill laying around? lol)

[azurerogue]

On the contrary, Frogboy, I found J J J's attitude to be okay, and his points are well-argued, even if I disagree with him, personally. Just a matter of remaining emotionally detached from an argument, I suppose.

[Frogboy]

i meant the "i told you so" part only, because "i told you so" in any argument is never justified.

as far as the rest of what he brought up, he makes a bit of a case yes, but they are moot points mostly, because there are some points i do agree on myself as well, but using them to justify the other points that don't even have any relevance is where he argument falls apart.

[JJJ]

lol i said i reserve the right to say i told you so, because i've been on a ton of servers, and i've seen the impact this change has so if it does turn out like i expect, i can say i told you so

that and i like saying i told you so to people, its funny XD


now:

Force-Attuned Krogoth Wrote:Sucky people will always suck.??Only thing that quests could possibly do is shorten the time, but we've already seen that time is not a deterrent.??Quest exp doesn't change anything at all, it just makes levelling faster temporarily.??

i disagree, if your bad at math you practice math until you get better
if your bad at playing with hunters, you play with hunters until you get better, its a basic learning method, but if you provide people with a route that involves no use of the character other then walking, teleporting, and talking then thats not really practice is it?

Force-Attuned Krogoth Wrote:How is that any different from the leeching in thor's that you see any time you set foot in the zone???People will level.??Nothing we say will change that.??Do I want people to trans without knowing that they have to use water arrows on kasa???No.??But it'll happen with no regard to my sensibilities.??And changing quest exp will have no impact on it, because these people aren't deterred by the road to 99.

but heRO has leeching nerfs in place, as in you can't sit still for more then 5 minutes without exp share going off

heRO has deterrents against leeching, because just like quests it involves no skill at all (even less to be honest)

increasing the exp from quests isn't a deterrent against doing quests, its the opposite, which is in a way promoting leveling that doesn't require any skill or lots of knowledge of the game

Force-Attuned Krogoth Wrote:In fact, alot of the people who don't make it to 99 are the ones who already figured out their class and are bored and make another.??Should we complain about them next?

i don't really see how this relates ^^;;; sorry....
if you don't make it to 99 you just don't make it to 99.... what does that have to do with raising quest exp?.... /hmm

Frogboy Wrote:J J J, your attitude of "i told you so" is way out of line, and has no need as part of your response. you really should know better than that.

i don't think i could be any more obvious of the flaws in your argument than i already am. please don't think that by killing monsters it somehow equates to killing human controlled players (sorry for stealing what you said kretz, but J J J is thick headed :P anybody got a really big drill laying around? ;) lol)

im pretty sure your the one going out of line here....... /swt

Frogboy Wrote:but going off of that anyway, your "points" really aren't very strong at all. everyone who dedicates time to level their characters however they do so, will eventually get to level 99. there is no skill needed in leveling.

so:....
it doesn't take skill to know how to mob?
it doesn't take skill to know how to switch elemental weapons?
it doesn't take skill to level in thors, bio labs, abbey, etc?
it doesn't take skill to know what to avoid?
it doesn't take skill to know how to move, where to move, and when to move?
it doesn't take skill to know when to use fly wings, pots, fish, etc?
it doesn't take skill to know what you can, and what you should kill?
it doesn't take skill to know what skill to use?
*could probably go on but my kitty wants to stand on my keyboard ;_;*

Frogboy Wrote:you could practically (though you'd be insane to do so) level off porings and get to 99. does that mean that the person knows how to play their class? if you say yes, you are just lying to yourself. point, click, and "shoot" tactics to level don't apply in strategy.

i don't think your understanding what im saying very well xD

if you level by killing things, you know how to kill things
if you level by partying, you know how to party

most people who play RO level by killing things solo, and partying, and very few people level off quests, but my point from this is that if you never, not once, never ever level by solo killing things, you'll be pretty horrible at it no?

Frogboy Wrote:it's a leveling mechanism. strategy involves thinking several steps ahead of what your opponent is thinking, and that cannot be learned by just killing monsters. besides even if you did learn to be strategic on monsters, it isn't the same as players who have real brains of their own and can actually think for themselves how to protect themselves while attacking you at the same time. monsters, no matter how good the AI is, can never ever do that. all they're good at is skill spamming, which is pretty much what any player does when killing monsters. it's a mindless game of kill or be killed. if monsters could think for themselves outside the bounds already set for them, then your idea of learning strategies would be valid, but as of right now, they don't work.

lol i never said killing monsters was equal to killing players, butttttttttttt example time =3

if a hunter knows how to properly trap monsters, they know a bit about trapping, which gives them a heads up on trapping players

but if a hunter knows nothing about how to properly trap monsters, then they'll know nothing about how to properly trap players
-----
if a wiz knows how to properly use SG on monsters, they know a bit about using SG, which gives them a heads up on using SG on players

but if a wiz knows nothing about how to properly SG monsters, then they'll know nothing about how to properly SG players
-----
*too lazy to type up more examples*
but my point is that monsters are basically stupid really stupid versions of player's behaviors, and if you don't learn what to do to a monster then you'll be hopeless when it comes to what to do about a player

[azurerogue]

You make some good points, J J J. But the fact is this: if people want to be lazy and not learn how to play certain roles, there will always be a way to do it. Increasing quest exp will just reward people for doing some of the annoying quests. It won't stop people who want to learn their class from learning, and leaving quest exp rates won't stop lazy people who don't want to learn from leveling one way or the other. That's my opinion anyways.

[JJJ]

xD i know it won't stop them
but i at least don't want to have a huge door with a sign above it saying "come here its easier to level without working"

[Frogboy]

that isn't something we have to advertise, it would be a perk of the game that would get out by word-of-mouth only, though i can say this much, with the way our server is run and handled, not that many people could keep up here anyway

[JJJ]

/swt it still promotes something i dont think many people want promoted..... X.x

[Ellie]

JJJ Wrote:most people who play RO level by killing things solo, and partying, and very few people level off quests, but my point from this is that if you never, not once, never ever level by solo killing things, you'll be pretty horrible at it no?

.. I don't understand why this point here keeps coming up.
You CANNOT fully level from 1/1 novie to 99 trans with just quests...
Or even normal 99, I do believe~

So they are going to HAVE to go kill something, at some stage.

To say that if we raise quest exp, that they will never go and kill anything is somewhat.... well, silly.