Sugg: Falcon Trigger

[mahawirasd]

well little sara, i'm sorry if my ~1/3 is wrong, didn't mean to mislead anybody, it was just a rough estimate, note the ~...


[quote: kirby] IMO INT higher than 40 is a waste since dmg wise it wont grow higher. [/quote]
^win

@frogboy>>
IMHO more than lower 9x agi would be a waste...

and yes, luk bonus also comes into the equation -> i checked the RODE calc and also because gloria significantly affects proc rate...


-w-

[Cheesecake]

Gloria gives 4% move chance of falcon.

[Little Sara]

Cheesecake Wrote:Gloria gives 4% move chance of falcon.

Shouldn't it give a lot more? Chance for Auto-Blitz is LUK/3. Gloria is +30 LUK, wouldn't that be +10% Auto-Blitz?

[Fyrus Carmin]

Little Sara Wrote:Shouldn't it give a lot more? Chance for Auto-Blitz is LUK/3. Gloria is +30 LUK, wouldn't that be +10% Auto-Blitz?

It indeed works like that.

[azurerogue]

There's no realistic reason to need any significant amount of DEX *OR* INT in a falconer build, really.??With your example build (from the first page of posts) of 20 DEX / 65 INT... you're adding 68 damage per hit (or 204 total damage) assuming you're only hitting one target with your auto-blitz.??Personally, I'd rather push for higher ASPD using the points from INT and putting them towards DEX, but that's just me.??

But, on topic, if these things are actual features then eAthena will get to them eventually.??I don't think they're going to recode one skill early.??If that were to happen, I'd re-open my whining about EQ being broken.??

EDIT: As an example...

190 ASPD Sniper Build:
5 Attacks / Second, 970 Damage Auto Blitz, 14.5% Chance (w/ Gloria) = 703.25 DPS (just bird, no damage from attacks for whatever reason)

Falconeer Build (as given on first page + enhancements to make it 99/70):
2.6 Attacks / Second, 1190 Damage Auto Blitz, 40.9% Chance (w/ Gloria) = 1265.446 DPS (just bird)

So you don't even double your bird's DPS but you, yourself, are dealing about 1/3 of the damage per attack (which means more like 1/6 the DPS) that you would be doing as a 190 ASPD sniper. As fun as Blitz Beat might be there it just no way to make it even a decent skill, imo, even if you let it activate on misses.

[Cheesecake]

I don't see where your facts are coming in there. Did you factor in crit?

With 25 or so dex, and my buffs which I still use, I have around 50 dex, and it comes to roughly 129 hit. Thats more than enough for the basic enemy, and most other enemies, and falcon can take care of the real hardcore flee enemies.

Falconer is in no way a PVP build, keep in mind I am talking strictly hunting, pve, etc. And even so like I said before you need to factor in the crit % from eq etc.. which I have yet to determine.. but my build is a crit falcon.

[azurerogue]

I got my facts from running a calculator with the stats you gave (upgraded slightly to represent a 99/70 Sniper) vs a 99/70 190 ASPD Sniper. So, yes, crits were factored into the DPS results it gave.

[Little Sara]

azurerogue Wrote:I got my facts from running a calculator with the stats you gave (upgraded slightly to represent a 99/70 Sniper) vs a 99/70 190 ASPD Sniper.??So, yes, crits were factored into the DPS results it gave.??

I leveled on Geographers for a while.

With no / low crit I did 430 damage/hit
Crits did 750 damage

Then I equipped Morrigane set and was doing 450 damage/hits
Crits did 822, and were a lot more common (32% as opposed to 9%).

This is a free hit every 3 hits, that is guaranteed to touch target, and that can trigger falcon. My aspd barely lowered (from removing pantie+undershirt, as Morrigane takes garment slot).

I also doubt that a Sniper can 1) so easily reach 190 aspd and 2) that a falconer would have 10 aspd less.

Even 100 DEX less is less than 5 ASPD difference (because awakening potion is counted after). Also with nearly 100 total AGI, I attain 171 aspd only. If I can reach 183 aspd as a DEX Sniper it will be good.

I tried RMS, non-geared Sniper with 99 base DEX and AGI, with only self-buffs (including True Sight). Can reach 182 aspd.

Total final stats:

1+9 STR
99+29 AGI
1+8 VIT (and yes, screw resistance, we're trying to compare DPS)
2+10 INT
99+43 DEX
25+13 LUK

182 aspd with awakening
281 Hit, 232+4 flee
22% critical chance
13.67% Falcon chance
900 dmg per time falcon goes off

----------------

and the other build

1+9 STR
91+28 AGI
4+8 VIT
56+10 INT
8+32 DEX
90+13 LUK (no Gloria counted)

175 aspd with awakening
179 hit, 223+11 flee
41% critical chance
35.33% chance of Falcon going off
1070 dmg per time falcon goes off

------------

Let's compare the non-geared builds.
182 aspd is 0.36 second per hit. Roughly 3 hits per second.
175 aspd is 0.50 second per hit. Exactly 2 hits per second.

First build Falcon goes off once per 7.3 hits
Second build Falcon goes off once per 2.8 hits
Second build's Falcon is 18.8% stronger per time it goes off also.

Let's say they're both using Orc Archer Bow with Steel Arrows (which the calc doesn't count, but it wouldn't be fair to count them unarmed, as much as its fair to count them without the rest of the gear). This is 120+40 attack and does +50% of all damage.

First build's attack= 347+160 = 507 *1.5 = 760
Second build's attack = 78+160 = 238 *1.5 = 357

Let's compare how they do vs a 100,000 HP enemy with 0 Def and 0 Vit:

First build: 760 dmg hit + 123.8 dmg/hit from Falcon triggering (damage divided by 7.3 to count per hit). It would go down in 113.14 hits. Or 40.8 seconds.

Second build: 357 dmg hit + 382.1 dmg/hit from Falcon triggering (damage divided by 2.8 to count per hit). It would go down in 135.30 hits. Or 70.1 seconds. Might be a bit lower because of damage variability with low DEX, though 40% crit rate ensures more than half the hits (counting Falcon) do max damage.

Let's compare on that same enemy with 20 Def and 20 Vit and 0 Luk (crit shield factor):

First build: 760 dmg hit when crit (22% of time) 588 when not crit (78% of time) + 123.8 dmg/hit from Falcon triggering. It would do average bow hits of 625.8. It would go down in 133.4 hits. Or 48.1 seconds.

Second build: 357 dmg/hit when crit (41% of time) 265 when not crit (59% of time) + 382.1 dmg/hit from Falcon triggering. It would do average bow hits of 302.72. It would go down in 146.0 hits. Or 73 seconds.

Let's compare on that same enemy with 40 Def, 40 Vit and 40 Luk (-8% crit shield):

First build: 760 dmg hit when crit (14% of time) 416 dmg when not crit (86% of time) + 123.8 dmg/hit from Falcon triggering (notice Falcon dmg is always constant while bow hits lower). It would do average bow hits of 464.1. It would go down in 170 hits. Or 61 seconds.

Second build: 357 dmg/hit when crit (33% of time) 174.2 when not crit (67% of the time) + 382.1 dmg/hit from Falcon triggering. It would do average bow hits of 234.5. It would go down in 162 hits. Or 81 seconds.

Keep in mind Morrigane set would increase both Falcon rate and crit rate. I'm not sure what equipment the DEX/AGI build would wear however, which is why I didn't include equips other than weapon.

The calculations are not based on real testing, and may not be 100% accurate. In theory they are mostly accurate (did not account for damage variability of lower DEX). Depending on the equipment of either party, the pure DEX or the Falconer may get an advantage.

If you know of the pure DEX equipment, then tell me, I will be able to do a more accurate comparison.

In this analysis, not included as buffs are:
AGI Up, Blessing, Gloria, Manus Impositio, any elemental advantage, any enemy skills like KE or defender. Obviously not Pneuma.

Personally though, while I can see a pure Luk Falconer would be fun to play, I would most likely do a Hybrid with higher DEX (80 total), lower INT (20 or 30 total) and lower LUK (60-80 total).

The weakness of a Pure Falconer is that Double Strafe-spamming is not a viable strategy to kill. Falcon Assault is something else though, and they have more SP and SP regen to do it.

[Aaronock]

Snipers on this server do actually reach 190 :s
*Looking at Valks and Evo!*

[Sakurato]

These DPS tests involve gear.

190 aspd + a Crit bow = win.

Damage Per Second 5118.92 on a banshee ( Auto Attack), 30 def. Fully buffed.

Your falconer build's DPS

Damage Per Second 2993.58 on a banshee with your exact stats and morrigane's set, same buffs.

Your build has 100% crit, the 190 ASPD one has 55%. And yes there is a 190 apsd sniper on hero possibly more than one.